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PCM vs DD
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorschultzy
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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I will ask because I do not know.  I think I have an understanding of what PCM is, but how does it compare to DD or DTS?
Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMark Harrison
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Here's the grade school answer.

The biggest difference is the PCM is uncompressed while DD and DTS are compressed.

If you really want to get technical, DD and DTS are lossy compression algorithms.  They throw out the "unimportant" bits hopefully leaving you with something that sounds like the original.  How much compression there is determines how much is thrown out.  Much like a JPEG.

DD+ is also a lossy compression algorithm.  But it's a better algorithm than the old DD found on DVDs, so you get better quality.  Less is tossed out.

DD TrueHD is lossless.  That means that when uncompressed, you end up with a file that is identical to the master used to make the track.

DTS-MA (DTS Master Audio) is also lossless.  It takes the DTS Core track (lossy) and combines it with the bits that were tossed out in the compression stage to give you the original track.
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 Last edited: by Mark Harrison
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorschultzy
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Thanks for the grade school 101.  Though I wish I knew I was going to move to HD DVD and Blu-ray a month ago when I got my surround sound system.  I will have to play around though.  As my receiver seems to support PCM, it just doesn't sound right.  Or maybe I have no idea and it doesn't support it 
Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMark Harrison
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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It should support PCM.  I know mine does.  The player (HD-A2 in my case) decodes the DD+ and DD TrueHD to PCM to send to the receiver and it sounds great.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting schultzy:
Quote:
As my receiver seems to support PCM, it just doesn't sound right.

Have you tried to let your DVD-player do the decoding and then transport the signal analog to your receiver?
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting schultzy:
Quote:
Thanks for the grade school 101.  Though I wish I knew I was going to move to HD DVD and Blu-ray a month ago when I got my surround sound system.  I will have to play around though.  As my receiver seems to support PCM, it just doesn't sound right.  Or maybe I have no idea and it doesn't support it 


have you verified the setup of your dvd player most players have a setup menu to tell the hardware what you have connected and what to do with it.
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantpauls42
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Mark Harrison:
Quote:
Here's the grade school answer.

The biggest difference is the PCM is uncompressed while DD and DTS are compressed.

If you really want to get technical, DD and DTS are lossy compression algorithms.  They throw out the "unimportant" bits hopefully leaving you with something that sounds like the original.  How much compression there is determines how much is thrown out.  Much like a JPEG.

DD+ is also a lossy compression algorithm.  But it's a better algorithm than the old DD found on DVDs, so you get better quality.  Less is tossed out.

DD TrueHD is lossless.  That means that when uncompressed, you end up with a file that is identical to the master used to make the track.

DTS-MA (DTS Master Audio) is also lossless.  It takes the DTS Core track (lossy) and combines it with the bits that were tossed out in the compression stage to give you the original track.


Thanks for this. I have never actually known what the differences are. (and I never cared when I was sitting at the PC.)

For some reason I thought PCM was the poor cousin and tried to always select DD..
Paul
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Quoting pauls42:
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For some reason I thought PCM was the poor cousin and tried to always select DD..

It is and it isn't. On DVD PCM (and laserdisc before it) was restricted to stereo because of the huge amount of bandwidth it required to transfer multi-channel surround. More bandwidth that either optical or coaxial digital connections could handle. Not to mention the storage space. In fact a stereo PCM track took up more than 4.5 times as much space as a 5.1 dolby digital and more than twice that of a DTS track. That is why (in the case of DVD) you would mainly just find it on music DVDs (ie Opera). With the enhanced bandwidth of HDMI and storage of HD discs, PCM is making a comeback. 
 Last edited: by bob9000
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorSkywatcher
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Mark Harrison:
Quote:
It should support PCM.  I know mine does. 


If it plays music Cds (which all do  ) then it supports PCM. 
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorschultzy
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I think I just have to play with my receiver more.  I know the PS3 supports it, just need tweak the receiver.
Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantPeter von Frosta
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting Skywatcher:
Quote:
Quoting Mark Harrison:
Quote:
It should support PCM.  I know mine does. 


If it plays music Cds (which all do  ) then it supports PCM. 

CDs are 44.1khz, DVDs etc. 48khz. And of course a 5.1 or above signal is slightly different to a stereo PCM signal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorErik
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting schultzy:
Quote:
I will ask because I do not know.  I think I have an understanding of what PCM is, but how does it compare to DD or DTS?

Here's the tech-y answer...

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/news/
Erik

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMark Harrison
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Erik:
Quote:
Quoting schultzy:
Quote:
I will ask because I do not know.  I think I have an understanding of what PCM is, but how does it compare to DD or DTS?

Here's the tech-y answer...

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/news/


Thanks for the link.  That's a good article.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantChazcdc54
Registered: March 19, 2007
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Great article! I printed it out as I'm sure I will forget down the road what this all means.  It was not that technical at all (thank god!). I had been thinking PCM was some old analog format not all that great and primarily used in mult-channel set-ups, which I don't have at present.

I wonder if it is a better choice than the DD+ on some of the HD DVDs I own (a couple at present) or rent on my Toshiba HD-A35.  I have a Onkyo TX-SR805 and I'm sure it can decode the PCM tracks.

Any advice in this direction? I guess I'm looking for people who have done comparisons between both tracks on certain movies.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMark Harrison
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I've yet to see an HD DVD with a PCM track (though I'm sure there's one out there somewhere).  I'd go back and re-read that article.  Which is "better", really depends on the source used and the equipment it's played back on.  In theory a lossless track (PCM) will be better than a lossy track (DD+).  But if you don't have good enough equipment to hear the difference, then it really doesn't matter.  And even if you do, you have to have good enough ears to hear the difference.  Transformers only has a DD+ track (lossy), yet still was recently voted to have the best HD sound track of any HD DVD and Blu-ray out.

If you have an A35, your player is converting the DD+ or DD TrueHD to PCM internally and sending that to the receiver.  There was firmware upgrade recently that allow some player to send the native track to the receiver to decode.  I think the A35 will do that and the Onkyo 805 should also decode them.  So you might want to look into that if you care.  Although it's 90% marketing gimick so some people can see the TrueHD light show up on their receiver.  Since my player doesn't support it and my receiver doesn't either, I don't know a whole lot, but I can point you in the right direction if you care.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwidescreenforever
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Quoting Chazcdc54:
Quote:
Great article! I printed it out as I'm sure I will forget down the road what this all means.  It was not that technical at all (thank god!). I had been thinking PCM was some old analog format not all that great and primarily used in multi-channel set-ups, which I don't have at present.

I wonder if it is a better choice than the DD+ on some of the HD DVDs I own (a couple at present) or rent on my Toshiba HD-A35.  I have a Onkyo TX-SR805 and I'm sure it can decode the PCM tracks.

Any advice in this direction? I guess I'm looking for people who have done comparisons between both tracks on certain movies.


Looking thru my own library titles I see I have the 5 disc Beatles Anthology as well as Fleetwood Mac's 'The Dance'  and  Pink Floyd 's The Wall ..     
all of these I have listened to in 5.1 DDS and DTS..
Thanks to Marks interesting Posting .,, I'll look forward to using PCM  in the future ..
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