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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Audio Formats (Feedback Requested) |
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| Registered: March 10, 2007 |  Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm working on the audio format changes for version 3.6 (thanks, Ace_of_Sevens and others for your effort and input!).
3.6 will split the audio format into two fields: Format and Channels, with automatic conversion of existing data.
I'd like to solicit opinions on the following case: Currently, 3.5 supports "Dolby Digital Surround EX", which it considers to have 6.1 channels. Currently, 3.6 does not include "Dolby Digital Surround EX" as a format. Instead, these would be converted to "Dolby Digital," with "6.1 (matrixed)" channels.
According to my research, Dolby Digital Surround EX is actually 6.1 channels matrixed onto 5.1. However, each DVD I've checked calls them "Dolby Digital EX 5.1 Surround" or similar.
As coded, it is likely that this will create confusion - some users would contribute these tracks as "Dolby Digital" "5.1", and others as "Dolby Digital" "6.1 (matrixed)".
I've therefore tentatively decided to include "Dolby Digital Surround EX" as a format choice, with the channels locked at 6.1 (matrixed) for this choice.
Alternatively, I could convert these as Dolby Digital 5.1, and lock Dolby Digital to a max of 5.1.
Or, I could include "Dolby Digital Surround EX" as planned, but give the channel choice as "5.1 (6.1 matrixed)"
Similarly, DTS ES (Matrixed) is being converted to DTS, 6.1 (Matrixed). Yet, DVDs I've checked frequently call the track "5.1 DTS-ES".
Thoughts? | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative | | | | Last edited: by Ken Cole |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,217 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yay, new version coming! And nice avatar by the way. Quote:
3.6 will split the audio format into two fields: Format and Channels Excellent. Quote:
Instead, these would be converted to "Dolby Digital," with "6.1 (matrixed)" channels. Sounds like the best solution to me. Quote:
As coded, it is likely that this will create confusion - some users would contribute these tracks as "Dolby Digital" "5.1", and others as "Dolby Digital" "6.1 (matrixed)". Well, that could/should be solved by a clear example in the contribution rules. cya, Mithi | | | | Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki |
| | Registered: March 24, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,044 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have to agree with my German friend, that sounds like a reasonable solution. Rory  | | | DVD Profiler for iOS as of 3/5/2013
DVD Profiler for Android as of 5/17/2013 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 681 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mithi: Quote:
Yay, new version coming! And nice avatar by the way. I hate that new avatar Giving me the creeps... Quoting Mithi: Quote:
Quote:
3.6 will split the audio format into two fields: Format and Channels
Excellent.
Quote:
Instead, these would be converted to "Dolby Digital," with "6.1 (matrixed)" channels.
Sounds like the best solution to me. My +1 for that too. | | | Mika
I hate people who love me, and they hate me. (Bender Bending Rodriguez) |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | How will mono be handled?
On any number of releases of older films, the soundtrack is dolby digital mono, yet repeated over multiple channels. As a result, the people who focus on the number of channels give us erroneous data. However, changing it so that we know it's simply dolby digital and it has two channels isn't any more helpful.
I guess I'm asking if Dolby Digital Mono is a format choice, and if not, please consider adding it. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,946 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'd go for Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES with the channels locked.
I also agree with mdnitoil that Dolby Digital Mono is a needed option. | | | View my collection at http://www.chriskepolis.be/home/dvd.htm
Chris |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Dolby Digital Mono is an option. The full list will be open for debate when the beta launches. In the mean time, DD EX and DTS ES are the only ones I need feedback on. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
3.6 will split the audio format into two fields: Format and Channels, with automatic conversion of existing data. Bravo! This is a great step forward! Regarding DD EX and DTS, I would be inclined to profile them as 6.1 (matrixed) instead of 5.1. Most analyzing tools & Review sites will also identify these as 6.1 rather than 5.1 I believe. An example: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=2230While we're at it, can we also have a check box for hidden audio tracks? (I know, I'm so greedy  ) | | | Blu-ray collection
DVD collection
My Games
My Trophies | | | | Last edited: by Taro |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | I've just tested a good example that has both types of audio on the disc.
The example I've got is The Fellowship of the Ring (5017239191718) UK extended cut but I'd guess that the same release in other regions will likely have similar options.
The Dolby track was reported as 5.1 by my AV receiver & DTS as 6.1 & both are actually called labeled as such on the disc.
I'll admit that I don't really understand all of the terms but I can't see why you'd lock to 6.1 if they're only reported as 5.1 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,946 |
| | Posted: | | | | For DTS ES you have a true 6th channel present.
For DD EX the 6th channel actually is a virtual channel created by the 2 back speakers, if your AV receiver has the ability to decode it.
So the question is, do we want to profile the virtual channel or not. | | | View my collection at http://www.chriskepolis.be/home/dvd.htm
Chris |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought from what I've read.
I'd say that if it's not a real channel then it shouldn't be counted. |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | The matrixed channel is valuable information, and is the only difference between DD EX and normal DD. Since we have the option of "6.1 (matrixed)" for other audio formats that support it, DD EX should be given the same treatment.
Unless we can come up with a solid case of a DD EX track being something other than 6.1 matrixed, or a DTS ES track being something other than 6.1 discrete, I'm inclined to include both DD EX and DTS ES as format options, with the one channel choice per. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Based on my own knowledge and background I think you have hit correctly, Eyegor. I am busily upgrading my knowledge base for all the new BD options, very entertaining research.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 20,111 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Dolby Digital Mono is an option. The full list will be open for debate when the beta launches. In the mean time, DD EX and DTS ES are the only ones I need feedback on. PCM Mono and DTS Stereo options will also be included finally, I hope?  Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
The matrixed channel is valuable information, and is the only difference between DD EX and normal DD. Since we have the option of "6.1 (matrixed)" for other audio formats that support it, DD EX should be given the same treatment.
Unless we can come up with a solid case of a DD EX track being something other than 6.1 matrixed, or a DTS ES track being something other than 6.1 discrete, I'm inclined to include both DD EX and DTS ES as format options, with the one channel choice per. Sounds like the logical choice. | | | | Corey |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | The problem that I'm seeing is that the DVD, the cover & hardware reports something with X number of channels and we want to call it X+1.
Sorry, I just can't get my head around the logics of this one! |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
The matrixed channel is valuable information, and is the only difference between DD EX and normal DD. Since we have the option of "6.1 (matrixed)" for other audio formats that support it, DD EX should be given the same treatment.
Unless we can come up with a solid case of a DD EX track being something other than 6.1 matrixed, or a DTS ES track being something other than 6.1 discrete, I'm inclined to include both DD EX and DTS ES as format options, with the one channel choice per. While Dolby Digital EX is always 6.1 matrixed (the codec doesn't support additional channels), DTS ES can be either matrixed or discrete. I agree is is useful to track this info. Examples of the ES matrixed include Terminator 2: Ultimate Edition, Atlantis: The Lost Empire and a bunch of Dreamworks movies including A.I., Jurassic Park III and Cast Away. Probably the easiest way to handles this would be to rename the channels options depending on what you select in the codec menu. If you choose DTS, it could offer "5.1," "5.1 ES (matrixed)" and "6.1 ES (discrete)." If you select Dolby Digital, it could offer "5.1" or "5.1 EX." Matrixed does seem to be typically called 5.1 on packaging. In the graphics, perhaps the matrixed channels could be shown as gray boxes instead of black to make it clear. | | | | Last edited: by Ace_of_Sevens |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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