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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Hong Kong parsing |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Good day, Sirs,
should I (among other corrections in the cast), change the current parsing of one of these names?
Tony / Leung Ka / Fai
Tony // Leung Chiu Wai
Love, bb/b/bb | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hello,
Hong Kong and Cinese people do not have middle names,
Mostly credited are:
Tony // Leung Ka Fai
Tony // Leung Chiu Wai
cheers
Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
Hello,
Hong Kong and Cinese people do not have middle names, True, but neither do they usually have western first names. While I could be remembering incorrectly, I am pretty sure that I read, somewhere, that when they do take a western first name, they move the family or given name...depending on whether or not they changed the order to the western standard...to the middle name. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 767 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
Hello,
Hong Kong and Cinese people do not have middle names,
Mostly credited are:
Tony // Leung Ka Fai
Tony // Leung Chiu Wai
cheers
Donnie For consistency's sake, I would use these as well. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbb: Quote:
Good day, Sirs,
should I (among other corrections in the cast), change the current parsing of one of these names?
Tony / Leung Ka / Fai
Tony // Leung Chiu Wai
Love, bb/b/bb there is a sticky thread on top discussing Chinese/HK names. Although there is no official concensus, my preference is to parse it Tony/Chiu-wai/Leung Tony/Ka-fai/Leung and use credited as to match any Romanized western name on credit if needed. | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thank you for answering, Sirs. Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
Hong Kong and Cinese people do not have middle names, But should we use our middle name field for the chinese given name, as xradman suggested? Quote:
Mostly credited are:
Tony // Leung Ka Fai
Tony // Leung Chiu Wai How do you find out the most common parsing? | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
there is a sticky thread on top discussing Chinese/HK names. Although there is no official concensus, my preference is to parse it
Tony/Chiu-wai/Leung
Tony/Ka-fai/Leung According to this poll the vast majority of users voted for Put given name in "First Name", put family name in "Last Name" (with or without changing the labels to Given Name / Family Name). Which results in: Tony Ka Fai // Leung or Ka Fai Tony // LeungTony Chiu Wai // Leung or Chiu Wai Tony // Leung | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am also fine with that, just no frelling middle names, as they do not exists
I have alot of profiles with those actors in them, there i checked the parsing, and it was almost as I named it in every profile.
Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 736 |
| | Posted: | | | | The parsing should be Tony//Leung Ka Fai or Tony//Leung Chiu Wai. To use those others is purely making up data. Having gone through over 500 Hong Kong films and personally verifying all of the data, I can tell you that those are the actual common names (with Tony Leung being a close second for each, but since both use that, the longer form name would be appropriate in that case as well). |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting synner_man: Quote:
The parsing should be Tony//Leung Ka Fai or Tony//Leung Chiu Wai. To use those others is purely making up data. Having gone through over 500 Hong Kong films and personally verifying all of the data, I can tell you that those are the actual common names (with Tony Leung being a close second for each, but since both use that, the longer form name would be appropriate in that case as well). That is entirely your own opinion. There is no concensus on this forum for parsing Asian names. | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Quoting synner_man:
Quote:
The parsing should be Tony//Leung Ka Fai or Tony//Leung Chiu Wai. To use those others is purely making up data. Having gone through over 500 Hong Kong films and personally verifying all of the data, I can tell you that those are the actual common names (with Tony Leung being a close second for each, but since both use that, the longer form name would be appropriate in that case as well).
That is entirely your own opinion. There is no concensus on this forum for parsing Asian names. synner-man is 100 % correct, it seems you do not have a single clue about what you are talking xradman. Also this has nothing to do with concensous, there are no middle names exisiting in those cultures, mabye you cannot grasp that, I really do not know why it is so hard to believe for you that other cultures do things differently than your culture. Ever been to the Hong Kong Movie Database xradman ? On another note, synner-man is/has been correcting tons of asian profiles and they all got accepted, at least the ones that I also own. shakes head at stubborn ignorance Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com | | | | Last edited: by DarklyNoon |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Quoting synner_man:
Quote:
The parsing should be Tony//Leung Ka Fai or Tony//Leung Chiu Wai. To use those others is purely making up data. Having gone through over 500 Hong Kong films and personally verifying all of the data, I can tell you that those are the actual common names (with Tony Leung being a close second for each, but since both use that, the longer form name would be appropriate in that case as well).
That is entirely your own opinion. There is no concensus on this forum for parsing Asian names. Not just an opinion, but something that can be backed up with fact. My data can be shown on-screen, taken from the credits. I've submitted hundreds of these profiles, fixing cast and crew according to the credits and not a single one was declined by the screeners. For example, I can find 39 films with Tony Leung Chiu Wai in my own database. In 17 profiles, he is credited as Tony Leung. In 17 profiles, he is credited as Tony Leung Chiu Wai. In 4 profiles, he is credited as Tony Leung Chiu-Wai. In 1 profile he is credited as Leung Chiu Wai. I verified all of these films myself and can tell you there has not been a Tony Chiu-wai Leung anywhere in the credits. It is made up data. If you like it that way, that is fine. But keep it local. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
synner-man is 100 % correct, it seems you do not have a single clue about what you are talking xradman.
Also this has nothing to do with concensous, there are no middle names exisiting in those cultures, mabye you cannot grasp that, I really do not know why it is so hard to believe for you that other cultures do things differently than your culture.
Ever been to the Hong Kong Movie Database xradman ?
On another note, synner-man is/has been correcting tons of asian profiles and they all got accepted, at least the ones that I also own.
shakes head at stubborn ignorance
Donnie Why must you resort to attacking him? Can't you get your point across without the insults?  That being said, I found where the source of the information I had remembered. "Most[citation needed] Chinese Americans move their Chinese given name (transliterated into the Latin alphabet) to the middle name position, and use an English first name, e.g. James Chu-yu Soong, Jerry Chih-Yuan Yang, and Michelle Wingshan Kwan. The Chinese given name usually has two characters and it is usually combined into "one" middle name for better organizational purposes, especially with Cantonese names, such as Bruce Lee's middle name, Junfan. There are also some new immigrants whose Chinese given names are their first names, and have English middle names." | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting synner_man: Quote:
Not just an opinion, but something that can be backed up with fact. My data can be shown on-screen, taken from the credits. I've submitted hundreds of these profiles, fixing cast and crew according to the credits and not a single one was declined by the screeners. We are talking about parsing here, aren't we? I will admit that I have not seen every credit out there, but the number that show actual parsing is rather small. I would be very interested to see what on-screen data you are seeing that shows 'Tony//Leung Ka Fai' or 'Tony//Leung Chiu Wai' as proper parsing.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting synner_man:
Quote:
Not just an opinion, but something that can be backed up with fact. My data can be shown on-screen, taken from the credits. I've submitted hundreds of these profiles, fixing cast and crew according to the credits and not a single one was declined by the screeners.
We are talking about parsing here, aren't we? I will admit that I have not seen every credit out there, but the number that show actual parsing is rather small. I would be very interested to see what on-screen data you are seeing that shows 'Tony//Leung Ka Fai' or 'Tony//Leung Chiu Wai' as proper parsing. First, stubborness you cannot fight with kind words. Second, what gives you the opinion that any of those actors are chinese americans ? This is funny beyond belief, none of those mentioned have anything to do with america, they are no immigrants, they are no americans, they are CHINESE people and for the 1234567 time, CHINESE people do NOT have middle names! It getting überannoying that the same people over and over again try to sneak in and want to apply american rules to other cultures.  Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting synner_man:
Quote:
Not just an opinion, but something that can be backed up with fact. My data can be shown on-screen, taken from the credits. I've submitted hundreds of these profiles, fixing cast and crew according to the credits and not a single one was declined by the screeners.
We are talking about parsing here, aren't we? I will admit that I have not seen every credit out there, but the number that show actual parsing is rather small. I would be very interested to see what on-screen data you are seeing that shows 'Tony//Leung Ka Fai' or 'Tony//Leung Chiu Wai' as proper parsing. First, I was correcting the idea that it would be parsed Tony/Chiu-wai/Leung or Leung//Chiu Wai Tony, or any other made-up name, which cannot be found anywhere in the credits. Second, I am using what is on the screen. The exact order of what is in the screen. I don't feel like going through the same arguments over and over again every time this same question comes up (just check any of the last dozen threads for a full discussion of the issue). This is how they are displayed on the screen. To create common names that don't exist because of a western standard doubles the work and places an undue burden on those of us that actually do the work. The current system is not perfect. We've made feature requests to find a solution to the problem (such as adding a checkbox to a particular field to note which is the surname), but there has been no response that anything like that is in the works. Maybe it will pop up in a future edition. But for now, we can only work with what we have. I've done several hundred Hong Kong profiles over the last six months or so and find very little company in doing the work. There are only a handful of users, like DarklyNoon, whose name pops up during voting. The current method, that I've spent hundreds of hours using to fix profiles that were mostly culled from IMDb, seems to be working fine. The voters accept it and the screeners accept it. If the decision is made to change to an alternate parsing method that ignores this work in favor of something that would double it, then my participation with this program is finished. |
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