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Would a showing at the Austin Butt-Numb-A-Thon be valid as Production Year?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMerrik
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Registered: September 30, 2008
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Looking at my profile for the film 300, it has it's Production Year set as 2007.

The film's very first showing took place at the Austin Butt-Numb-A-Thon in early December of 2006. From there, it opened at the Berlin International Film Festival in February 2007, and then from there, it opened wide in March of 2007.

Looking at the CLT results for Gerard Butler, the first five pages contain 38 profiles for 300 with a Production Year of 2006 and 73 profiles for 300 with a Production Year of 2007. Meaning there's obviously some confusion over the Production Year for this film which should be sorted out.

For extra information on the Austin Butt-Numb-A-Thon, you can view it's wiki page here (or it's official website
here). During it's first years, there were contests to get in (one for the residents of Austin and one for residents of somewhere other than Central Texas). Now it's an internet process only with essay style questions and pictures submitted. There's approximately 200 seats at the theatre in which the Austin Butt-Numb-A-Thon is held, and it's filled to capacity every year.

The Austin Butt-Numb-A-Thon has seen the first public screening of some fairly big films, including 300, Knocked Up, The Passion of the Christ, Black Snake Moan etc. This doesn't ALWAYS cause a problem with the profiles for DVDProfiler, because a lot of the times, the first public screening co-incides with the year the film was released wide. However, with such films like 300 & Black Snake Moan, which were released wide the following year, it seems to be causing confusion.

Should the Production Year for these films match the year they were shown at the Austin-Butt-Numb-A-Thon, or should the Production Year for these films match the year they were released wide?

And I guess a better way to phrase the question, does this A-Thon (tired of typing the whole thing  ) meet the contribution rule for Production Year which states "Enter the year of the original theatrical release"?

It's not a problem just localized to this particular situation either. If you look up CLT results for someone who took part in the film The Evil Dead for instance, that film actually has THREE Production Years within the system. 1981, 1982 & 1983. The film had a single premier in Detroit in October 1981, opened at a bunch of festivals in 1982 and was released wide in April of 1983.

Which leads to a bigger question, should the rule for production year be revised to be more specific and cover cases such as the ones presented here?

Any thoughts?
The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play.
 Last edited: by Merrik
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributortweeter
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The generally accepted use of the Production Year field is for the year the film was generally released.  So for 300 and Knocked Up...2007.

The field name and the definition could use work but what i state above is how i, and i think most people use it.
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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I understand it the same way tweeter does.  General release, not film festival release...though, not everybody agrees.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMerrik
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I understand it the same way tweeter does.  General release, not film festival release...though, not everybody agrees.


I understand it the same way, but you're right when you say not everybody agrees.

I also wonder what everyone's thoughts on the term General Release are. Isn't something like the Austin-Butt-Numb-A-Thon general? I mean really, if you look at it, anyone could actually get in. There's an elimination process yes, but it's technically open to everyone, making it fairly general. I could see an arguement against this one however because you can't actually BUY the ticket to go to the theatre to see it.

Or a film festival in general? The film Crash was released at the Toronto International Film Festival in 2004. The majority of the profiles in DVDProfiler have that listed as the Production Year (it opened wide in 2005 and is noted by Oscar trivia experts as being one of the only films to be released in the previous year [2004] and win the Best Picture award for the following year [2005]). That festival is completely open to the general public as far as I know, you just have to buy tickets and get to it. Doesn't that constitute a general release? A release of the film that you can buy tickets to and go watch it at the theatre? You can do that at the Toronto International Film Festival.

Everyone's thoughts on what a general release is (or theatrical release as the rules put it) seem to differ. I know this first hand because some of the passionate arguements (in the good sense!!) I got through pm's when I originally brought up the Production Year for the film The Evil Dead last year sometime showed me just how different these thoughts are!    For that film, would the Detroit Premiere in 1981 be a general release? Would all the numerous film festival showings open to the public in 1982 be general releases?

Lots of tricky questions that many have different answers for. I agree with Tweeter, the field name and definition could use some work. It's actually skewing some CLT results quite bad. I did a common name thread of Robert Tapert last year, and the "common name" through the CLT at the time was Robert G. Tapert. It was shown that the ONLY film he was credited this way in was Evil Dead 2 and that Robert Tapert should be the common name. I've done some clean-up since then and the common name is now correct in the CLT results, but Robert G. Tapert still has 43 titles under his name in the CLT results because of so many skewed production years which no one can agree on (even if the profile contained the incorrect name, he should have maybe... 15... at max).

A little work indeed! 
The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play.
 Last edited: by Merrik
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhallo-marvin
Registered: April 17, 2007
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I don't think we will solve this without Ken making a statement, because General Release is not something we will reach an agreement on I'm afraid. For me it is the first screening where everybody had a chance to see it, that would include film festivals that are open to anyone.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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I should clarify my original post.  When I say 'general' release, I mean one of two types of releases:

  • Limited Release - playing in a select few theaters across the country.


  • Wide Release - playing nationally.


  • There are, of course, exceptions but that is how I define the 'Original Theatrical Release Date'...which is what the rules call for.
    No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
    There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
    Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
    The Centauri learned this lesson once.
    We will teach it to them again.
    Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
    - Citizen G'Kar
     Last edited: by TheMadMartian
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
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    I understand our Production Year field also as general release, so in general not film festivals. That's how I use it.

    But imho the first showing of a movie as Production Year would be more useful. I could imagine examples which differ these dates about many years and the Production Year should show the time when a movie was made. (Just because you expect different thing of a movie from 1980 and a movie from 2010)
    What if a movie was shown on a festival in 1980 but never got released and in 2010 it got a DVD release?
    Or even more bad what if a movie was just shown on a festival, never got released and they do remake with the same title coming out 2011. And the makers of the origianal movie think, this would be a good chance to release our old movie also. Two different movies with the same title and same Production Year? This would make some problems.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
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    Quoting hallo-marvin:
    Quote:
    (...) For me it is the first screening where everybody had a chance to see it, that would include film festivals that are open to anyone.

    For me as well.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
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    Quoting TheMadMartian:
    Quote:
    I should clarify my original post.  When I say 'general' release, I mean one of two types of releases:

  • Limited Release - playing in a select few theaters across the country.


  • Wide Release - playing nationally.


  • There are, of course, exceptions but that is how I define the 'Original Theatrical Release Date'...which is what the rules call for.

    What would be the production year of a film which had been released in theatres abroad but was direct to DVD in the USA. I assume with "across the country" and "nationally" you mean the USA.

    IMO if a film has been shown anywhere on the world for an open public, it has been released. And this date would be the release date.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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    Quoting RHo:
    Quote:
    IMO if a film has been shown anywhere on the world for an open public, it has been released. And this date would be the release date.

    Case in point: click! It's had it's theatrical run here, by now it's available to buy on DVD and Blu-ray, but still no limited or wide release in the U.S. It was shown at Sundance, however. So what's the production year?
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
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    Quoting T!M:
    Quote:
    Quoting RHo:
    Quote:
    IMO if a film has been shown anywhere on the world for an open public, it has been released. And this date would be the release date.

    Case in point: click! It's had it's theatrical run here, by now it's available to buy on DVD and Blu-ray, but still no limited or wide release in the U.S. It was shown at Sundance, however. So what's the production year?

    2010. (All releases in 2009 were Festivals.)
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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    Quoting VirusPil:
    Quote:
    2010. (All releases in 2009 were Festivals.)

    You think so? Every single profile for this film in the database has the production year listed as 2009, though... 

    Now it looks like it'll get a theatrical release in the U.S. in december. What if that's pushed back to January? Would that make the production year 2011? It'll be hard to explain that to someone who watched it at his local cinema in February 2010 and bought the DVD a couple of months later...

    Mind you: as far as the country of origin is concerned, "all releases in 2010 were Festivals", too - so far, at least.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
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    Quoting T!M:
    Quote:
    Quoting VirusPil:
    Quote:
    2010. (All releases in 2009 were Festivals.)

    You think so? Every single profile for this film in the database has the production year listed as 2009, though... 

    Now it looks like it'll get a theatrical release in the U.S. in december. What if that's pushed back to January? Would that make the production year 2011? It'll be hard to explain that to someone who watched it at his local cinema in February 2010 and bought the DVD a couple of months later...

    Mind you: as far as the country of origin is concerned, "all releases in 2010 were Festivals", too - so far, at least.


    That's why i'm not going to make it depending on the CoO. Where the theatrical release happened, should not be interesting.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbigdaddyhorse
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    Quoting RHo:
    Quote:
    Quoting hallo-marvin:
    Quote:
    (...) For me it is the first screening where everybody had a chance to see it, that would include film festivals that are open to anyone.

    For me as well.


    This was how I always interpeted the rule, more of first public display/availibility. I will switch to first general release if that's what it's supposed to be.
     Last edited: by bigdaddyhorse
    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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    Quoting RHo:
    Quote:
    What would be the production year of a film which had been released in theatres abroad but was direct to DVD in the USA. I assume with "across the country" and "nationally" you mean the USA.

    Why would you assume that?  If a film is released in theatres abroad, then it had a 'Theatrical Release', or am I missing something? 
    No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
    There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
    Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
    The Centauri learned this lesson once.
    We will teach it to them again.
    Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
    - Citizen G'Kar
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
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    I've always taken the year to be the first year Joe Public could just walk into a cinema and see the film. This Butt-Numb-A-Thon doesn't sound like it's open to the general public so wouldn't be counted for our purposes.
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