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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,737 |
| | Posted: | | | | If they are listed with the Cast and I mean as part of the Cast:
Do we include Stunt Doubles, Stand-ins and Helicopter Pilots? Obviously you see them, but not always their faces. I think we should, they are just as important as the uncreds. I will go with the majority.
I am not talking about Stunt Players...I know we don't want to include them. | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | If they are listed as cast they obviously have to be credited as cast. If they are not listed within the cast section of the credits and with no specific role names associated to them, I wouldn't include them. "they are just as important as the uncreds" Since many people here don't want to include uncredited at all, that's a pretty weak argument.  | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | If they are listed among the cast, they should be included.
If they are listed at the end of the cast, but before the crew, they may be included. I never do, however, but wouldn't vote no in this case.
If they are listed with the crew, I do not believe they should be included, and would vote no. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Agree with Cassandra and iPatsa.
So my Poll-answer would be "Yes, ... if". | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | We've had this discussion with Voice actors listed in the sound section or outside the normal cast listings, they are cast and are included.
The same is true with crew. No matter where they are listed they are crew. Stunt Doubles, stand-ins, body double, etc.
shouldn't have 2 different standards for the same situation. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | The rules are pretty clear here. If the film has standard credits, as defined by the rules, we copy them exactly. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
The rules are pretty clear here. If the film has standard credits, as defined by the rules, we copy them exactly. But they are not standard if they include crew members within the area of cast. | | | | Last edited: by ateo357 |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting iPatsa: Quote:
If they are listed as cast they obviously have to be credited as cast. That is not at all obvious. Per the rules: Quote:
Do not list actors and crew who appear only in special features, or whose scenes were deleted from the main feature, even if they appear in special features. If an actor does not appear they should not be listed. Also, stand-ins are not "actors": "A stand-in for film and television is a person who substitutes for the actor before filming, for technical purposes such as lighting....Stand-ins are distinguished from body doubles, who replace actors on camera from behind, in makeup, or during dangerous stunts."--------------- |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Danae Cassandra: Quote:
If they are listed among the cast, they should be included.
If they are listed at the end of the cast, but before the crew, they may be included. I never do, however, but wouldn't vote no in this case.
If they are listed with the crew, I do not believe they should be included, and would vote no. Where they're listed in the ending credit roll doesn't make them an actor. Once a Stunt Double or stand-in is considered a cast and not a crew, then they should all be contributable no matter where they are in the credits for any film. | | | | Last edited: by ateo357 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
But they are not standard if they include crew members within the area of cast. Actually, the inclusion of crew has nothing to do with whether or not they are standard credits. The rules define "standard" film credits as "those where all credited actors involved are listed at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film." As long as that definition is met, even if crew are included, they are considered standard credits for Profiler purposes. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
The rules define "standard" film credits as "those where all credited actors involved are listed at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film." As long as that definition is met, even if crew are included, they are considered standard credits for Profiler purposes. So then if a person is listed along with their job description (e.g. stand-in, stunt double) rather than with an associated film role they are not part of the cast, even if they are listed among the actual cast members. --------------- |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
The rules define "standard" film credits as "those where all credited actors involved are listed at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film." As long as that definition is met, even if crew are included, they are considered standard credits for Profiler purposes.
So then if a person is listed along with their job description (e.g. stand-in, stunt double) rather than with an associated film role they are not part of the cast, even if they are listed among the actual cast members.
--------------- I was actually looking at the next section of the rules as the out, but this might work as well. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
The rules define "standard" film credits as "those where all credited actors involved are listed at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film." As long as that definition is met, even if crew are included, they are considered standard credits for Profiler purposes.
So then if a person is listed along with their job description (e.g. stand-in, stunt double) rather than with an associated film role they are not part of the cast, even if they are listed among the actual cast members.
---------------
I was actually looking at the next section of the rules as the out, but this might work as well. Now you have me confused. Your earlier post seemed to be for inclusion and now this one seems to say exclusion. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Understandable, as that was my original thought. I went back and retread the rules to see if there was a way to exclude them. Since I found a way, I changed my opinion. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
The rules define "standard" film credits as "those where all credited actors involved are listed at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film." As long as that definition is met, even if crew are included, they are considered standard credits for Profiler purposes.
So then if a person is listed along with their job description (e.g. stand-in, stunt double) rather than with an associated film role they are not part of the cast, even if they are listed among the actual cast members. With this interpretation, when there is no role, we should be obliged to consider they are not part of of the cast (we have the word "and"). And what about Helicopter pilots ? is it a job or a role ? (I would say both). I think those interpretations are just splitting hairs, and will be unknown or ununderstood by most of contributors | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting iPatsa:
Quote:
If they are listed as cast they obviously have to be credited as cast.
That is not at all obvious. Per the rules:
Quote:
Do not list actors and crew who appear only in special features, or whose scenes were deleted from the main feature, even if they appear in special features.
If an actor does not appear they should not be listed.
Also, stand-ins are not "actors":
"A stand-in for film and television is a person who substitutes for the actor before filming, for technical purposes such as lighting.
...Stand-ins are distinguished from body doubles, who replace actors on camera from behind, in makeup, or during dangerous stunts." It is obvious to me but maybe not to you. I believe we copy all credited cast members whether they actually appear in the feature or not. The rule you quote was put there to prevent cast from bonus material or IMDb type (scenes deleted) to be listed, not to prevent credited actors from being included. We don't "correct" credits even if they are found to be wrong, and there is of course no way to know anyway for many unknown actors. Or maybe we should only include actors who speak or actually show their faces as well? I mean, if that's how I choose to define actors, what's stopping me from making up my own credits? | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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