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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,723 |
| | Posted: | | | | Since the previous thread clearly shows we're divided on the matter, I thought a poll would come in handy to get an idea of exactly how divided we are. Could be helpful in case Invelos wanted to weigh in on the matter. Again, this is the rule on honorifics: Quote:
Military rank/affiliation or other honorifics should be included in the 'Credited As' field. Example: a credit of "Cpl. John Smith, USMC" should be entered as First Name: "John", Last Name "Smith", Credited As "Cpl. John Smith, USMC" Now: do "Uncle" "Aunt", "Mr." and "Mrs." qualify as honorifics? |
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| Registered: September 18, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,650 |
| | Posted: | | | | No. Nope. Absolutely not. |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thought about this for a while.
The initial thought (especially regarding your example) was to say "Yes", but after some re-thinking I came to the conclusion that a "stage-name" would probably fit better.
Simply because my uncle Joe is most likely not the same person as your uncle Joe (if you have one at all). So family-prefixes are for family internal use mostly, if used outside the family a stage-name simply makes more sense. Otherwise Missi (diminutive for Miss) Pyle would have a severe problem in our database.
The only problem that arises then are those family-prefixes if used by clerics (Father, Brother, Mother, Sister), but I guess in those cases assuming a "honorific" should be OK. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 | | | | Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero |
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| Registered: October 30, 2011 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,870 |
| | Posted: | | | | I did a little research, and from all the sites I saw pretty much the same thing, but this one sums it up well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorific#Modern_English_honorifics
"An honorific title is a word or expression with connotations conveying esteem or respect when used in addressing or referring to a person"
Now that is easy to apply to standard things like Mr., Mrs. Ms., and Miss I think we have to look at how it is actually used in the credit.
In this case "Uncle" could be used to denote respect. However he has been credited as just "Uncle Ray", which is making me think he is using that as a stage name. But I don't think we can state that is an absolute in all cases. |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's a stage name because, as Lewis_Prothero observes, he's not my uncle.
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| Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | When I think of myself as Aunt Kathy, I don't consider it a stage name or honorific. It is my first name as far as my nieces and nephews are concerned.
As far as profiler:
Honorific - absolutely not.
Stage name - okay. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,330 |
| | Posted: | | | | I pretty much said it all in the other thread... but... I was always taught an honorific is... Quote:
a title or word implying or expressing high status, politeness, or respect. I definitely believe that Uncle, Aunt, Mr., Mrs. etc. falls well within that definition. And in my personal opinion if it is in the credits like that it should be treated as such and it don't matter that he is not OUR uncle. As for my family... we never taught the young ones that Uncle is just part of my first name... it was a sign of respect and politeness. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I pretty much said it all in the other thread... but... I was always taught an honorific is...
Quote:
a title or word implying or expressing high status, politeness, or respect.
I definitely believe that Uncle, Aunt, Mr., Mrs. etc. falls well within that definition. And in my personal opinion if it is in the credits like that it should be treated as such and it don't matter that he is not OUR uncle. So you would want Missi Pyle to be entered this way: / / Pyle [Missi Pyle]? | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
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| Registered: September 18, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,650 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I pretty much said it all in the other thread... but... I was always taught an honorific is...
Quote:
a title or word implying or expressing high status, politeness, or respect.
I definitely believe that Uncle, Aunt, Mr., Mrs. etc. falls well within that definition. And in my personal opinion if it is in the credits like that it should be treated as such and it don't matter that he is not OUR uncle.
As for my family... we never taught the young ones that Uncle is just part of my first name... it was a sign of respect and politeness. I have an Uncle on my Mother's side who is a complete happy funtimeing meanie-weanie. I have no time for him and certainly do not respect him. BUT, he is still my Uncle. Whether I respect him or not. Definately not an honorific IMO. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,330 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lewis_Prothero: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
I pretty much said it all in the other thread... but... I was always taught an honorific is...
Quote:
a title or word implying or expressing high status, politeness, or respect.
I definitely believe that Uncle, Aunt, Mr., Mrs. etc. falls well within that definition. And in my personal opinion if it is in the credits like that it should be treated as such and it don't matter that he is not OUR uncle.
So you would want Missi Pyle to be entered this way: / / Pyle [Missi Pyle]? I know nothing about Missi Pyle... never heard of this person before. And since we have no honorific of Missi here... If I saw this in the credits I would have done Missi / / Pyle out of the simple fact I wouldn't know any better... thinking Missi is a different spelling for first name Missy. As there is many ways to spell most first names... at least here in the US. If Missi is another way to do something like Miss or similar. I do believe the rules call for something like that... but don't know if it is possible as I don't think you can have a last name only name in the database. So in my honest opinion that is something Invelos would have to give us guidence on... whether they decide to make an exception for when there is only a last name available or whatever other solution they would want. | | | | Pete | | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 553 |
| | Posted: | | | | T!M, I believe your poll question is getting at two different things. Mr. and Mrs. (and their equivalents in other languages) are honorifics and should be treated as such. They apply to a broad population, but when they are used, they're usually as a sign of respect. As for Aunt or Uncle, I would go for stage name. This is the only case I've seen, but the gentleman in question has also been credited simply as "Uncle Ray", which I would parse as Uncle Ray//. | | | My DVD/Blu-ray Collection
My Letterboxd Page | | | | Last edited: by Rizor |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,330 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting samuelrichardscott: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
I pretty much said it all in the other thread... but... I was always taught an honorific is...
Quote:
a title or word implying or expressing high status, politeness, or respect.
I definitely believe that Uncle, Aunt, Mr., Mrs. etc. falls well within that definition. And in my personal opinion if it is in the credits like that it should be treated as such and it don't matter that he is not OUR uncle.
As for my family... we never taught the young ones that Uncle is just part of my first name... it was a sign of respect and politeness.
I have an Uncle on my Mother's side who is a complete happy funtimeing meanie-weanie. I have no time for him and certainly do not respect him. BUT, he is still my Uncle. Whether I respect him or not. Definately not an honorific IMO. Of course different people will have different opinions... and feel they are completely right per the rules. In such cases all we can hope for is if Invelos steps in with an answer on how they want it. I have already sent Invelos a message pointing to the original thread. Till we get an answer from them one way or the other there will be no consistency and be problems with linking. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: September 18, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,650 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree Pete. Just a shame Invelos are never too keen to chip in - but you all know how I feel about that.  |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
If I saw this in the credits I would have done Missi / / Pyle out of the simple fact I wouldn't know any better... And you would have done so correctly. Problem is (as pointed out in my post above): Missi may also be the diminutive of "Miss" (mostly used in the Southern parts of the US, if I recall correctly) therefore meaning "Little Miss". Following your opinion would lead to the result that I'd have to do further researches when "Uncle" appears in the credits: 1) Does the person have brothers/sisters? 2) Does any of them have children? 3) May he be honorary "Uncle" to anyone? Means: Could it be a honorific or is it actually a stagename. Because the chance that it might be used as (family-) honorific doesn't eliminate the chance that it was used as stagename. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,330 |
| | Posted: | | | | And the same can be said for any honorific there is. Anyone could make a stage name out of any honorific there is if they want. There is no rules to creating a stage name. If they want to use something... they just use it. If I was working in film or TV I could easily do so going under any stage name I would want... Father Pete (I am a father... could be an honorific and a stage name all at once)... I could even go under.. Mother Pete.... If I really wanted to.... all I would have to do is request it be put in the credits... though with my name it would be fairly obvious a stage name.  Could be... Captain Pete General Pete Colonel Pete You would have no idea if I am in the military or if I am using it as a stage name. So as I said... you really can say the same thing about any honorific. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | OK,
so "in dubio pro honorific", or what? | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
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