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Why Liberals Just Lovve Obama |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting sugarjoe: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Sugar:
As llong as you wish to be an SS operative anmd try to control thought and speech I have NO INTEREST in your comments. They have NO validity.
Skip
I feel personally offended by this post. It shows that the reputation system is unable to deal with such behaviour. In a moderated forum this sentence, which I think is not covered by the freedom of speech, would have led to at least a temporary ban of the user. Good for you, Sugar. I have been personally offended by EVERY ONE of our posts on this topic. If you don't like it... tough. .I care as much about your tender ego as you do mine. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
If this is the case, and you did not get up and leave and go find another lender then you (your sisiter-in-law) have no one to blame but yourselves. No reputable lender would say "I won't give you a conventional loan with a payment of $2000/mo. but I will give you an ARM loan for $2000/mo". Let's pretend for a moment that you have no idea what we did. Let's pretend for a moment that you have no idea whether or not this was a reputable lender, much less what they would or wouldn't say. Oh, wait, we don't have to pretend as you do not possess any of the information required to make that kind of statement.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
If this is the case, and you did not get up and leave and go find another lender then you (your sisiter-in-law) have no one to blame but yourselves. No reputable lender would say "I won't give you a conventional loan with a payment of $2000/mo. but I will give you an ARM loan for $2000/mo".
Let's pretend for a moment that you have no idea what we did. Let's pretend for a moment that you have no idea whether or not this was a reputable lender, much less what they would or wouldn't say. Oh, wait, we don't have to pretend as you do not possess any of the information required to make that kind of statement. Based on what you posted earlier, you did not go somewhere else or she wouldn't have been stuck with an ARM whose rate increased dramatically and forced her into foreclosure. And I stand by my statement about a reputable lender. I am very well connected in the mortgage broker industry and know what is and isn't reputable. The only reason for a broker to do what you described is because they were getting a kickback for "pushing" ARMs. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
My intention at this point is to go to work at a school, probably a middle school, as a school librarian and work on my MA in education while doing so. Despite how much I do love my job, I don't love the small paycheck and am looking forward to not being poor.
Well, if you're going into the education field, not being poor isn't an option  . Seriously though, I commend you. My neice recently completed her BA and has obtained her teaching credential. She's currently teaching 5th graders and finds it very rewarding. I suppose it's all a matter of what "not being poor" means to each of us. A good friend of mine is also going into education (as a language arts teacher, we hope to possibly work at the same school), and we are both drooling over a salary of 30-35k. To us that means not being poor, as it is more money than either of us have ever made in a year. To another person, that same 30-35k may be a mere drop in a bucket and they would consider the quality of life they could buy on that to be paltry. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rico: Quote:
Pre long post, it's like you mooch, some forum members, can't do things, because of the woeful amount (tax)money taken from me, to support you. After the long post, its like oh this does not apply to you, just a concept, & what's your degree in. The personal is often political and the political often personal. While yes, Skip and others did use myself as the example in saying "you made a choice, I don't support your choice, why should my money (tax dollars) be used to empower you" I also used myself as the example of talking about a lack of healthcare. Therefore, in using myself as the example for the topic I open myself up to being used by others as the example. That is why I bring up personal/political, because it becomes both personal (having used myself as an example) and political (as concepts one doesn't agree with). They don't think the government should use their tax dollars to provide universal healthcare. And of course all arguments about universal healthcare, pro or con, are conceptual, because the US government doesn't provide it (Medicare and Medicaid not being universal). As kdh1949 shows us: Quote:
Now people claim that there are "entitlement" programs and claim that just by drawing breath, people somehow are "entitled" to have the government give them things. These same arguments are used against other social programs. While I do not speak necessarily about him, in general people on the right tend to focus on programs that are designed to give money to extremely poor individuals. I assume his politics place him right of center based on his responses, he may correct me if I'm wrong. I equally have a problem with entitlement programs, simply different programs. Personally, I'd like to see an elimination to corporate welfare. I don't think the government should use my tax dollars to give money to McDonalds to market chicken mcnuggets in Thailand. I will pose this question: is there anything we (the people) are "entitled" to? The constitution, as I remember reading it, said that we are entitled to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." If we are entitled to those three things, then we are entitled to the things that make those possible. Happiness is unquantifiable, it would differ for each person. With liberty, those are the freedoms and rights guaranteed to us in the constitution (speech, press, religion, meeting, gun ownership, etc). That only leaves the first, life. With life, what is it that makes life possible? What keeps you alive? Clean air, clean water, and reasonably nourishing food. If the government would at least guarantee the first two (since the FDA theoretically oversees the last, outbreaks of e coli notwithstanding, and fortunately we have not had any problems like what's going on in China right now) then we might not need to worry so much about the question of universal health care. That of course doesn't address the problems of getting reasonably nourishing food in the inner city, but we'll leave that out for now. Currently the US government opposes a UN proposal to change clean water from a human need to a human right. I'm certain there are those who will disagree with this analysis, so I welcome discussion, especially as I posed the question. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield | | | | Last edited: by Danae Cassandra |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Danae Cassandra: Quote:
These same arguments are used against other social programs. While I do not speak necessarily about him, in general people on the right tend to focus on programs that are designed to give money to extremely poor individuals. I assume his politics place him right of center based on his responses, he may correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have a problem with tax dollars going to help "extremely poor individuals" work their way out of those circumstances -- especially ones who are not competent to take care of themselves (e.g., children or physically or mentally impaired). Programs that provide a way for people to bring themselves out of poverty would be a productive use of government funds. Welfare programs should help people move up the ladder, not just support them at the bottom of the ladder forever. Quote:
I equally have a problem with entitlement programs, simply different programs. Personally, I'd like to see an elimination to corporate welfare. I don't think the government should use my tax dollars to give money to McDonalds to market chicken mcnuggets in Thailand. You won't get any argument from me about this. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote:
Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
These same arguments are used against other social programs. While I do not speak necessarily about him, in general people on the right tend to focus on programs that are designed to give money to extremely poor individuals. I assume his politics place him right of center based on his responses, he may correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't have a problem with tax dollars going to help "extremely poor individuals" work their way out of those circumstances -- especially ones who are not competent to take care of themselves (e.g., children or physically or mentally impaired). Programs that provide a way for people to bring themselves out of poverty would be a productive use of government funds. Welfare programs should help people move up the ladder, not just support them at the bottom of the ladder forever. I'm actually in full agreement there. Too many times government programs that should enable people to work there way out of poverty are actually designed to keep them there. Case in point, again using my own life as example, but may equally apply to others. When I was 16 my mother lost her job (for reasons we won't go into here). Since we were living in a very small town (moved to expressly for that job) we packed up what we could and got the hell out of dodge back to the city where there are a lot of jobs. Between us we had $50. Shacking down at homeless shelters, mom went out ASAP to a temp service and got a temp job, while I took a job running a cash register at a burger joint. Neither of these are great jobs, but any job is better than no job. We applied for assistance, thinking it would help us get out of the shelter, into an apartment, and in general help us get back on our feet. The social worker told us we made too much money. Then, the truly scary part of the story, was that she then said "it'd be a shame, but if your daughter got pregnant, you'd qualify for everything." I'm 33 today and I still don't have kids, so you see what choice I made to that. I still cannot to this day wrap my head around telling a 16 year old, freshly dropped out of high school (I later got my GED), living in a homeless shelter, with a mother living in another shelter, that the answer is to get pregnant. If I had done that, I would not now be finishing my second graduate degree in college. I will be honest and say I am actually ambivalent about a government run healthcare system. On the one hand, the system as it stands today does not serve the population as it needs to be served. If 15-20% of the population cannot afford healthcare, that is unacceptable. Private insurance has demonstrated no willingness to attempt to solve this problem. On the other hand, the government screws up everything else it gets involved in, so healthcare would be the same. But I keep thinking that a screwed up system that at least offered something for the poor would be better than nothing. But, like Ken said earlier, I have no solution for this problem. Someone (I forgot who) suggested a two-tier system, with a government program that could be accessed to those who could not otherwise afford care, and that may be at least a part of an answer. Something like Medicaid, only with fewer restrictions (long ago when I looked into that, I was basically informed that to qualify for Medicaid I would have to be a minor, pregnant, or have a mental condition, and since I am a perfectly sane adult, and as previously, I am unwilling to bring children into a situation where I have neither the time or money to properly care for them ...). I, and I believe many other people of low income, would be perfectly willing to buy into it, if the cost were one we could afford. It is not that I am necessarily unwilling to spend money. It is that I do not have the amount that is demanded. Were the amount affordable I would do it, and I believe many other low income people would as well. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Danae Cassandra: Quote:
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
These same arguments are used against other social programs. While I do not speak necessarily about him, in general people on the right tend to focus on programs that are designed to give money to extremely poor individuals. I assume his politics place him right of center based on his responses, he may correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't have a problem with tax dollars going to help "extremely poor individuals" work their way out of those circumstances -- especially ones who are not competent to take care of themselves (e.g., children or physically or mentally impaired). Programs that provide a way for people to bring themselves out of poverty would be a productive use of government funds. Welfare programs should help people move up the ladder, not just support them at the bottom of the ladder forever.
I'm actually in full agreement there. Too many times government programs that should enable people to work there way out of poverty are actually designed to keep them there. Case in point, again using my own life as example, but may equally apply to others.
When I was 16 my mother lost her job (for reasons we won't go into here). Since we were living in a very small town (moved to expressly for that job) we packed up what we could and got the hell out of dodge back to the city where there are a lot of jobs. Between us we had $50. Shacking down at homeless shelters, mom went out ASAP to a temp service and got a temp job, while I took a job running a cash register at a burger joint. Neither of these are great jobs, but any job is better than no job. We applied for assistance, thinking it would help us get out of the shelter, into an apartment, and in general help us get back on our feet. The social worker told us we made too much money. Then, the truly scary part of the story, was that she then said "it'd be a shame, but if your daughter got pregnant, you'd qualify for everything."
I'm 33 today and I still don't have kids, so you see what choice I made to that. I still cannot to this day wrap my head around telling a 16 year old, freshly dropped out of high school (I later got my GED), living in a homeless shelter, with a mother living in another shelter, that the answer is to get pregnant. If I had done that, I would not now be finishing my second graduate degree in college.
I will be honest and say I am actually ambivalent about a government run healthcare system. On the one hand, the system as it stands today does not serve the population as it needs to be served. If 15-20% of the population cannot afford healthcare, that is unacceptable. Private insurance has demonstrated no willingness to attempt to solve this problem. On the other hand, the government screws up everything else it gets involved in, so healthcare would be the same. But I keep thinking that a screwed up system that at least offered something for the poor would be better than nothing.
But, like Ken said earlier, I have no solution for this problem. Someone (I forgot who) suggested a two-tier system, with a government program that could be accessed to those who could not otherwise afford care, and that may be at least a part of an answer. Something like Medicaid, only with fewer restrictions (long ago when I looked into that, I was basically informed that to qualify for Medicaid I would have to be a minor, pregnant, or have a mental condition, and since I am a perfectly sane adult, and as previously, I am unwilling to bring children into a situation where I have neither the time or money to properly care for them ...). I, and I believe many other people of low income, would be perfectly willing to buy into it, if the cost were one we could afford. It is not that I am necessarily unwilling to spend money. It is that I do not have the amount that is demanded. Were the amount affordable I would do it, and I believe many other low income people would as well. Oh goody, Dannae another of my favorite topics.  I refer to it as economic slavery. Now for my fun, and this will cause controversy WARNING, WARNING, DANGER WILL ROBINSON. While there is much to lay at the feet of the republican party, issues such as this I lay squarely at the feet of the democrat Party. they can only survive with an underclass which is enslaved to them with monetary handouts, as the African-America culture matures and becomes more conservative, the democrats are losing their underclass so they must develop a new one...habla espanol. Now for those wjo might be inclined to try to argue this, allow me to point to some history of the democrat party. It was the leadership of the party who was instrumental in the formatiuon of the KKK to try and wrest political control of the south from the republlican party, it was the Democrats which broght us Jim crowe laws and further refused to support the 1965 Civil Rights Act, it was Lyndon Johnson's Great Society with its welfare package which enslaved the African-American Community economically and began the culture aof class warfare in our system. They have been on 70 year approach to taking this cxountry down the road to socialism if not out and out Marxism, or as a friend of mine refers to it we are on the road to a soft dictatorship. As I said there is much i also lay at the fgeet of republicans. My personal philosophy. "If I give you a dollar I feed you today, if I teach you to fish I feed you for a lifetime." Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: April 8, 2007 | | Posts: 1,057 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hi Guys, Quote:
Danae wrote:
On the other hand, the government screws up everything else it gets involved in, so healthcare would be the same. But I keep thinking that a screwed up system that at least offered something for the poor would be better than nothing. Tis what we have now, a screwed up system. What your arguing is distribution of funds within the current screwed up system, while some complain there giving too much. Put more simply, I'm saying with our 'competitive system' a small per cent, will not be able to compete. As humans we need to do something about, these people, and we do! Danae wrote: Quote:
They don't think the government should use their tax dollars to provide universal healthcare. And of course all arguments about universal healthcare, pro or con, are conceptual, because the US government doesn't provide it (Medicare and Medicaid not being universal). The US govt. $$$ go to > states > eventually a small amt. $ helps the shelters etc. It's part of the safety net. Take Care Rico | | | If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz |
| | Registered: April 8, 2007 | | Posts: 1,057 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hi, Quote:
Skip wrote:
My personal philosophy. "If I give you a dollar I feed you today, if I teach you to fish I feed you for a lifetime." Skip what do we do with the people you can't teach? Should we gather all these anchors, to your being happy & SHOOT them dead. If there all dead, you will have more money, what will you do with your money, that you cannot do now? Quote:
Skip wrote:
While there is much to lay at the feet of the republican party, issues such as this I lay squarely at the feet of the democrat Party.
All problems come from either Democrats or Republican, sounds like either/or type thinking. Have you tried thinking outside party lines? Perhaps the creator will add the option for 'red or blue' avatar frames, for fast identification of political beliefs. How about some donkey elephant emoticons. You need to start seeing the shades of gray! Take Care Rico | | | If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Based on what you posted earlier, you did not go somewhere else or she wouldn't have been stuck with an ARM whose rate increased dramatically and forced her into foreclosure. Once again, you are making assumptions without the proper knowledge. Where did I say that my sister-in-law went into foreclosure? I said she lived in the forclosure capitol of the country, and that I had relatives that lost thir homes, but I never said she was one of them. But, hey, don't let the facts get in the way here. Quote:
And I stand by my statement about a reputable lender. I am very well connected in the mortgage broker industry and know what is and isn't reputable. The only reason for a broker to do what you described is because they were getting a kickback for "pushing" ARMs. You may be well connected in the morgage broker industry in your area, but I doubt you are well connected out here in California. I am, however, willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I know quite a few lenders out here, because of my business, give me your name and I will see if they have ever heard of you.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rico: Quote:
Hi Guys,
Quote:
Danae wrote:
On the other hand, the government screws up everything else it gets involved in, so healthcare would be the same. But I keep thinking that a screwed up system that at least offered something for the poor would be better than nothing.
Tis what we have now, a screwed up system. What your arguing is distribution of funds within the current screwed up system, while some complain there giving too much.
Put more simply, I'm saying with our 'competitive system' a small per cent, will not be able to compete. As humans we need to do something about, these people, and we do!
Danae wrote:
Quote:
They don't think the government should use their tax dollars to provide universal healthcare. And of course all arguments about universal healthcare, pro or con, are conceptual, because the US government doesn't provide it (Medicare and Medicaid not being universal).
The US govt. $$$ go to > states > eventually a small amt. $ helps the shelters etc. It's part of the safety net.
Take Care
Rico Rico: Therein lies the problem. You have at least TWO layers of government bureaucracy to feed BEFORE One penny gets to the target. for example the welfare system, the recipients received only 40% of the budget for the department the rest was eaten by...you guessed it. Most Non-Profits will give 90% of their receipts to the targets, some poorly managed ones drop to only 75%, isn't government a WONDERFUL thing. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: April 8, 2007 | | Posts: 1,057 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hi Skip,
With size comes a new problem. Example:
Local govt. somewhat cost efficient > county govt wasteful > state very wasteful > US govt. well just add more zero's to the waste. It's a more difficult task, manage correctly as size increases.
Skip - Complain about the dysfunctional system when your own numbers get worse, until then work to improve the system, it's the best we can do, & keep in mind some people just cannot be reformed.
Take Care
Rico | | | If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,796 |
| | Posted: | | | | "If American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation,
then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up
homeless on the continrnt their fathers conquered... The issuing power should be taken from banks
and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs"
President, Thomas Jefferson
It's a fact: since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, all banks in these United States create
money out of thin air for every single loan they issue.
These banks are not audited and have not had any accountability.
Thanks to your government, Republican and Democrat, civil servants and the media is just as guilty for covering up this mess. All they have done is blame the Republicans after the fact totally ignoring Democrat involvement.
If you want to know which eock star darling, watch the national media. | | | We don't need stinkin' IMDB's errors, we make our own.
Ineptocracy, You got to love it.
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,796 |
| | Posted: | | | | "If American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation,
then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up
homeless on the continrnt their fathers conquered... The issuing power should be taken from banks
and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs"
President, Thomas Jefferson
It's a fact: since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, all banks in these United States create
money out of thin air for every single loan they issue.
These banks are not audited and have not had any accountability.
Thanks to your government, Republican and Democrat, civil servants and the media is just as guilty for covering up this mess. All they have done is blame the Republicans after the fact totally ignoring Democrat involvement.
If you want to know which rock star darling is exposing herself, watch the national media.
It's all they are good for. | | | We don't need stinkin' IMDB's errors, we make our own.
Ineptocracy, You got to love it.
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rico: Quote:
Hi Skip,
With size comes a new problem. Example:
Local govt. somewhat cost efficient > county govt wasteful > state very wasteful > US govt. well just add more zero's to the waste. It's a more difficult task, manage correctly as size increases.
Skip - Complain about the dysfunctional system when your own numbers get worse, until then work to improve the system, it's the best we can do, & keep in mind some people just cannot be reformed.
Take Care
Rico Rico: That is precisely what i do. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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