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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Ok then, IMO, the neutral starting point depends on the data seen in the credit and the background knowledge of the contributor.
In my opinion, if you have to depend on the background knowledge of a contributor, the starting point isn't neutral. Right, well said. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
That means your GUESS, Rho. I am not interested in any of you undocumented guesses. Keep your guesses where they belong.
Skip What you call guess is what I´d like to call various degrees of knowledge and is completely allowed by the rules because there is no default parsing and every name has to be deal with individually. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Ok then, IMO, the neutral starting point depends on the data seen in the credit and the background knowledge of the contributor.
In my opinion, if you have to depend on the background knowledge of a contributor, the starting point isn't neutral. I don´t depend on it. But do we really want to force somebody to enter Helena/Bonham/Cater into the database only because it´s the starting point and the user is not willing to dig up the same documentation that has been brought up many times before ignoring completely his background knowledge? Remember I´m talking for the initial addition of a credit to a profile. I´m not talking about changes where the starting point has obviously already been given and documentation is of course mandatory. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
That means your GUESS, Rho. I am not interested in any of you undocumented guesses. Keep your guesses where they belong.
Skip
What you call guess is what I´d like to call various degrees of knowledge and is completely allowed by the rules because there is no default parsing and every name has to be deal with individually. And your statement is exactly why we need such things. I don't want YOUR gesses or anyone else's. We need a consistent beginning, not your guess no matter how how wise yiou think it is. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Ok then, IMO, the neutral starting point depends on the data seen in the credit and the background knowledge of the contributor. For something where the second word looks like a given name 1/2/3 is neutral and for something where the middle word looks like a family name 1//2 3 is more neutral than 1/2/3 (even though I know that some US women move their maiden name into their middle name. But in the complete picture 1//2 3 is more neutral when 2 is a family name. Neutral, by definition, means impersonal...having no personal preference. Once you see the credit as a name, and consider the background knowledge of the contributor, it is no longer impersonal so it is no longer neutral. Quote:
But whenever I add a credit to a profile (instead of changing it), I use my background knowledge to make an educated guess without needing to add a lengthy documentation of an extensive research about that name. Different strokes I guess. Edit: I see Reybr beat me to it. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 906 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
I don´t depend on it. It was your word, not mine  Quote:
But do we really want to force somebody to enter Helena/Bonham/Cater into the database only because it´s the starting point and the user is not willing to dig up the same documentation that has been brought up many times before ignoring completely his background knowledge?
Since it has been documented so many times, why wouldn't he document it for someone that hasn't followed the many times it has been brought up. But this isn't about Bonham Carter. This is about getting a starting point for those that we don't know. And for those, 1/2/3 is way more neutral than 1//2 3 Quote:
I´m not talking about changes where the starting point has obviously already been given and documentation is of course mandatory. That, we agree on | | | 
The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
I don´t depend on it.
It was your word, not mine
Ah, I see, the starting point may be different depending on the knowledge of the contributor. I do not depend on the knowledge of others. But that's not really important and I have difficulties expressing myself on this detail. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Can you show me one or better several contribution notes, where you have added a complete cast list to a profile without cast? I suspect that what you call something "that might couse some confusion" is subjective on your part. The same would be true for my contributions. For example I see no reason to document "Helena//Bonham Carter" when adding this credit (again changing would be different) because I don't expect any confusion here. Of course it is subjective on my part. As to your request, here are the notes for 'Hotel For Dogs' (097363494843). I added full cast and crew to this profile. Just as an aside, I used this credit to correct all the other Shuler Donner credits, for films I own, so that is why I initially thought it was a change. 1 - Added rating detail from back of case. 2 - Added 'Family' to genre...it is a family film. 3 - Added studios from film credits, corrected MC from back of case. 4 - Added subtitles by using DVD remote. 5 - Added crew and cast from film credits exactly as credited. Note: Parsing for Lauren Shuler Donner determined by credit that reads 'Assistants to Ms. Shuler Donner'. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
Since it has been documented so many times, why wouldn't he document it for someone that hasn't followed the many times it has been brought up. He may be too lazy to dig out the documenting link for each and every contribution on a well known name. How much work can we expect from a contributor for day to day business? Isn't it enough to bring only the disputed data to discussion to voters, to screeners, and sometimes to the forum? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Note: Parsing for Lauren Shuler Donner determined by credit that reads 'Assistants to Ms. Shuler Donner'. Nice work, I would not have bothered about this note because I would have regarded the content as obvious. But that's me. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | No Rho, we need a starting point for ALL users to work from, to prevent users from GUESSING,. Are you suggesting that you will start documenting your knowledge in your notes. Of coyurse you won't, because you don't care about that. You want to impose your undocumented but extensive guessing (knowledge) upon the rest of us.
I repeat I am merely to end a problem so that we can begin working towards a working link system. One page for all to work from and a relatively neutral page which MOST of the time can be documented for changes. Undocumented knowledge is not helpful to anyone but the one with the undocumented knowledge, thus keep your undocumented knowledge where it rightfully belongs...in your local. Remember Rho I am as dependent upon your data as you are mine and i don't want your your knowledge when it is based only upon your say so.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Note: Parsing for Lauren Shuler Donner determined by credit that reads 'Assistants to Ms. Shuler Donner'.
Nice work, I would not have bothered about this note because I would have regarded the content as obvious. But that's me. No worries. As I said, different strokes.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
Are you suggesting that you will start documenting your knowledge in your notes. Of coyurse you won't, because you don't care about that. You want to impose your undocumented but extensive guessing (knowledge) upon the rest of us. No, I would never dare to change the parsing of a name in one of your or anybody else's profile without documentation in the contribution notes. I think, I have stated this on any possible occasion. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | No I am referring to your initial Contributions for the benefit of ALL users.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | EDIT: duplicate post. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
No I am referring to your initial Contributions for the benefit of ALL users.
Skip Here I would use the wide spread contribution note without assuming that one of the credits or its parsing couldn't be obvious and would be disputed afterwards: Added cast and crew according to the film credits. |
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