Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting m.cellophane:

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When I look at the credit, the first word(s) is/are usually the name of the character. I know to hold that information for a second while I set up the actor name.

Why must you play this game?  Again, it should have been quite clear that I was refering to the actor's name and nothing else. 

I'm not intending to play any game. I'm pointing out that there are other words present on the screen and we discern which information to put where. That's all I mean.

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If I know the next word (eg. Chow) is a surname, it's awfully tough to turn off the brain and input that into the first name field.

It is very easy for me to enter the 'first name' I see into the field labeled 'first name'.  There is no need for me to 'turn off the brain'.

But "first name" doesn't mean the first name in the row of names. "First name", in American parlance, means "given name". You are entering Name1, Name2, Name3, etc., but I'm saying that "First Name" has a meaning and it's not "first word".

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On a side note, was it really necesary for you to throw in the insult?  While I don't happen to agree with your position, I never questioned your intelligence.  Since I have already stated my opinion on this matter, and nothing will be resolved until Ken steps in, I will bow out and leave you guys to it. 

I didn't mean to insult you or question your intelligence. I'm trying to describe what goes on in my personal experience when I'm doing a cast list. I'm saying that if I'm told that I must enter the first word I see as a "first name", even when I know it's a surname, I feel as if I have to turn my brain off to do that. I don't buy the word counting argument. "Last name" means surname to me; it does not mean "last word(s)".

Again, I did not mean to insult you. I'm very sorry that it appeared that way to you.

Quoting RHo:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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Please be so kind as to quote the rule that 'demands' you do it this way.  I have gone over the rules with a fine toothed comb and haven't found it.

Always at your service:

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list names exactly as they are in the credits.

The credit lists the last name "Chow", therefore I have to enter it into the last name field etc.

Your are creating your own logic like unicus says,, Rho. INCREDIBLE. You also love circular logic. I REPET that is YOUR interpretation and your opreference, it is not the intent, your interpretation belongs in ONLY one place and it is NOT the Online, Rho.<shakes head>All bow before Rho, he knows more than anyone....NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Skip

AND surfeur if you saw Kidman Nicole in the credits and listed it any other way you would be absolutely WRONG. And any such Contribution should be summarily DECLINED. YOU do not know more than the filmmakers, even though you might believe you do. If they listed Kidman that way they likely had a reason for doing so, might we know what that reasion might be...maybe...but more likely we would not. That is why we list what the data says and NOT what some user believes it says.

Skip

Quoting Dr Pavlov:

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AND surfeur if you saw Kidman Nicole in the credits and listed it any other way you would be absolutely WRONG. And any such Contribution should be summarily DECLINED. YOU do not know more than the filmmakers, even though you might believe you do. If they listed Kidman that way they likely had a reason for doing so, might we know what that reasion might be...maybe...but more likely we would not. That is why we list what the data says and NOT what some user believes it says.

Skip

If we can document that "Kidman Nicole" and "Nicole Kidman" are the same person (and likely document that "Nicole Kidman" is the CLT favorite) we're well within our ability and rights to contribute "Nicole Kidman" as the name and "Kidman Nicole" as the "Credited As".

Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting Dr Pavlov:

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If they listed Kidman that way they likely had a reason for doing so...

And I wouldn't care this reason.  All is important is to link actors, and if she is the same Nicole Kidman (I think I can recognize her on screen  , there is no reason to list her (and the rest of the credits, of course), in reverse order.

Please give me a good objective reason, in term of database (not just rules), that would make the reversed list better.

Because you don't know what the filmmakers were doing. As James noted in this format you could use the CLT, but for Credited As you list it as you see it, PERIOD. You want to do something else locally that is YOUR business, we use the CREDITS, surfeur, not your all-seeing crystal ball.

Skip

Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting Dr Pavlov:

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If they listed Kidman that way they likely had a reason for doing so...

And I wouldn't care this reason.  All is important is to link actors, and if she is the same Nicole Kidman (I think I can recognize her on screen  , there is no reason to list her (and the rest of the credits, of course), in reverse order.

Please give me a good objective reason, in term of database (not just rules), that would make the reversed list better.

there is no good objective reason (in term of database)

Quoting madacid:

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Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting Dr Pavlov:

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If they listed Kidman that way they likely had a reason for doing so...

And I wouldn't care this reason.  All is important is to link actors, and if she is the same Nicole Kidman (I think I can recognize her on screen  , there is no reason to list her (and the rest of the credits, of course), in reverse order.

Please give me a good objective reason, in term of database (not just rules), that would make the reversed list better.

there is no good objective reason (in term of database)

Mad:

Youu have no clue about what yiou speak. as i have explained to surfeur many times. It all depends what is used as a standard, you and he clearly want to use some standard other than what Profiler uses. My response to that is go use IMDb where they allow such behavior. We have a standard here and it is the film's credits, NOT your imagination ot even your hallucinations. Your arguments most of the time are not even lucid, either because you don't want to use that standard or don't understand it ata all.


Skip

C'mon fellows, let us simmer down a bit.
No one should get personal on that issue, although it is an issue that leaves a lot open for discussion.

As long as Ken doesn't change the rules, we should not discuss this over and over again

For me both sides have VERY good points.

Skip's side has a very valid point in entering data as it appears on screen, so that misinerpretaion is not happening.

But I can also understand the other side here, entering a name as family name, which I definitely know that it is the forename, is also not satisfying at all.

But ah well, I hope Ken will write something here in this topic.

But for now, I would really suggest if there is a need to discuss this, that we keep it objective and leave ANY personal attacks out of it

greetings
Donnie