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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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 Must rules be followed ? (Locked) |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 1,796 |
| | Posted: | | | | Remember the on-line data base was initially established with the profiles created under the rules in effect at InterVocative by those of us who became members here when Invelos was established. We all submitted all the profiles we could to Invelos a start.
I checked my profile list and I had profiles that had not be modified since 1999, (since undated), and many have not change since 2002, (and have no updates pending), that I submitted. The rules were different then. That data considered in building the Credit Lookup Table?
Is considering the relevance of number of errors by natives of any nation's natives you have to base the number of errors with the number of profiles submitted by the natives of that nation. Does Ken have a count of the number of members by nation and a number of their contributions? You will find humans through out the world are pretty good at screwing up.
Most of the conclusions I see in this forum are based of a WAG (Wild Ass Guess) and not even a SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess). In other words your conclusions are pretty much base on your biased opinions.
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, which we all so readily reference do not check their data.
If you don't like the waya name is presented in a film credit why dont you contat the films creator? | | | We don't need stinkin' IMDB's errors, we make our own.
Ineptocracy, You got to love it.
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Beyond that, we are not after perfection, we are after a consistent standard. I don't agree that there is an argument to be made for being inconsistent. We had inconsistent and I, for one, do not want to go back to it.
There's not much difference in this context between perfection and consistency. And the inconsistency you refer to was before we had a voting system. Nobody wants to go back to that. I disagree and, as Hal said, I have very little faith in the voting system. I see yes votes on data that is obviously wrong all the time. People seem to vote 'yes' just because. Why would I think it would be different if we allowed voting for exceptions? At least with rules, I can go back and correct the error. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I am sorry but letting users decide, on a per profile basis, which rules they can disregard, just doesn't sit well with me.
So why did you decide to disregard the rule about boxset/two movies on one side disc ? Your wish to add data rather than nothing is not sufficient to justify any violation of rules.
In fact, anybody here who says that rules must be followed strictly has chosen at a time or another to violate them. Why not take that reality in the rules themselves ? There is a difference between ignoring the rule due to program limitations and ignoring the rules because you don't like what they say. If you can't see that difference, there is no point in discussing this further. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
It would allow for exceptions that the voters deem warranted...such as the German hyphen issue. The problem with a set standard with no exceptions is that it's a blunt instrument that can create data that most users don't want.
That doesn't answer my question, as it can still allow for different standards for each profile, and I don't see how that is better than a set standard. I have done data entry for quite a few companies and we always had a set standard as it's the only way to ensure consistent data entry. Where those companies excelled, and Invelos fails, is in the modification of those standards. That is something I can't fix, but I sure as heck do not want to go with a voter generated sliding scale...expecially when I know that a good portion of the voters are simply 'yes men'.
As for the German hyphen issue, that isn't covered by the rules so, it isn't really an exception and, since they have been doing it for so long, is something that could have easily been added to either of the last two rule revisions.  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I am sorry but letting users decide, on a per profile basis, which rules they can disregard, just doesn't sit well with me.
So why did you decide to disregard the rule about boxset/two movies on one side disc ? Your wish to add data rather than nothing is not sufficient to justify any violation of rules.
In fact, anybody here who says that rules must be followed strictly has chosen at a time or another to violate them. Why not take that reality in the rules themselves ? Surfeur, You know perfectly well that two movies on one side of a disc CANNOT PHYSICALLY BE ENTERED AS A BOXSET. The program does not permit it. Entering it as a single profile is the ONLY way it can be done because that's the only thing the program permits. To equate that with not following the Rules just doesn't make sense to me. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Beyond that, we are not after perfection, we are after a consistent standard. I don't agree that there is an argument to be made for being inconsistent. We had inconsistent and I, for one, do not want to go back to it.
There's not much difference in this context between perfection and consistency. And the inconsistency you refer to was before we had a voting system. Nobody wants to go back to that.
I disagree and, as Hal said, I have very little faith in the voting system. I see yes votes on data that is obviously wrong all the time. People seem to vote 'yes' just because. Why would I think it would be different if we allowed voting for exceptions? At least with rules, I can go back and correct the error. I absolutely agree and all too sadly James is living proof of my lack of faith in the voting system. I don't mean that as an atack, James, it is a simple statem,ent of fact, and i really wish it weren't. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I disagree and, as Hal said, I have very little faith in the voting system. I see yes votes on data that is obviously wrong all the time. People seem to vote 'yes' just because. Why would I think it would be different if we allowed voting for exceptions? At least with rules, I can go back and correct the error. And Ken has stated that users who vote yes to everything devalue their vote in the system. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 762 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have to absolutely agree with TheMadMartian and hal9g on this. Thumbs up! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I disagree and, as Hal said, I have very little faith in the voting system. I see yes votes on data that is obviously wrong all the time. People seem to vote 'yes' just because. Why would I think it would be different if we allowed voting for exceptions? At least with rules, I can go back and correct the error.
And Ken has stated that users who vote yes to everything devalue their vote in the system. I know that is what he said but, when I am the only 'no' vote out of nine or ten, my vote is usually ignored. So, in theory, that might be true, but it isn't the case in practice...at least from what I have seen. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Particularly when the No vote is VALID, Martian. then the profile has to be fIXED.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
REMINDER:
The best way to deal with a troll, is to ignore them. That's why he is one of the 2 members on my blocked list, without the members who quote him he will not exist for me. Best way to deal with this, since no one seems to be permenantly ban here whatever you write or if you always violate the forum politics in your post (maybe I'm wrong on this, but I really doubt it). It's a general "you" and not a "you" Hal |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I am sorry but letting users decide, on a per profile basis, which rules they can disregard, just doesn't sit well with me.
So why did you decide to disregard the rule about boxset/two movies on one side disc ? Your wish to add data rather than nothing is not sufficient to justify any violation of rules.
In fact, anybody here who says that rules must be followed strictly has chosen at a time or another to violate them. Why not take that reality in the rules themselves ?
Surfeur,
You know perfectly well that two movies on one side of a disc CANNOT PHYSICALLY BE ENTERED AS A BOXSET. The program does not permit it.
Entering it as a single profile is the ONLY way it can be done because that's the only thing the program permits.
To equate that with not following the Rules just doesn't make sense to me. Okay, help me understand, so I can keep up: Two movies on one side of a disc cannot physically be entered as a boxset (due to program limitations). Surfeur says there was a rule violation upon one that was entered, but I'm not following how or where. That's where I'm trying to keep up. That said: Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I am sorry but letting users decide, on a per profile basis, which rules they can disregard, just doesn't sit well with me. I would hope it wouldn't sit well with anyone, but sometimes it happens, if only out of necessity. The problem becomes, however, a rule is modified and/or updated and the majority of submitters do not know. Contrary to what some may think, I'm a proponent of the rules, but we have to be realistic in thinking that, for one, the rules do not cover every situation and secondly, will never get updated enough (and I don't mean "updated enough" in the regards that they would be updated enough to satisfy everyone, I mean they won't be updated enough period). So what happens is users are inadvertently forced to decide, sometimes, on a profile basis what to submit for information when it's not covered by the rules. And I would bet you many times, that's done on the submission level, without them checking the forum. Quoting Surfeur: Quote:
In fact, anybody here who says that rules must be followed strictly has chosen at a time or another to violate them. Why not take that reality in the rules themselves ? This definitely happens. Sometimes inadvertently, sometimes purposefully, sometimes out of necessity, but it definitely happens. Nothing wrong with pointing it out. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Okay, help me understand, so I can keep up:
Two movies on one side of a disc cannot physically be entered as a boxset (due to program limitations).
Surfeur says there was a rule violation upon one that was entered, but I'm not following how or where. That's where I'm trying to keep up. The way we profile single-sided discs with two movies is with a single profile using cast and crew dividers to separate the cast/crew of each movie. That means we are "ignoring" the part of the Rules which defines a boxset as any release containing two or more films. The Boxset Rules tell us to create separate profiles for each film. Because both films are on the same side of the disc, the second movie has no unique Disc ID, therefore a separate profile cannot be created for it (a system limitation). Surfeur is trying to equate this system limitation to his desire to ignore the Rule which tells us to copy the Overview EXACTLY, so that he can fix typos when he finds them in the Overview, because he feels it is "common sense" to fix a typo rather than just copy the mistake into DVDP. Clear? | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I know that is what he said but, when I am the only 'no' vote out of nine or ten, my vote is usually ignored. So, in theory, that might be true, but it isn't the case in practice...at least from what I have seen. It could be a situation that he's described before where there is an error in the update but there is also other good information too. In that circumstance, in spite of 'no' votes, the contribution will most likely be approved. That's what just happened with the District 9 example. There were a few errors, but there was a lot of new data contributed. It was approved in spite of the 'no' votes and the forum thread...and now there's an update to fix the errors. I think that's how Invelos expects it to be done. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quote:
Quoting FilmAlba:
Yeah and you wonder why i don't like America. Self interested money making spoilt brats who don't give a hoot about the collective well being of there nation.
Please, just go away! 
I don't think he can. He's been banned everywhere else.  ...and Skip has proven us that it is impossible to get banned here  |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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