Quoting Rico:

Quote:
Hi Guys,

Srehtims - I went looking at Obama's web site, to see if I could find the names you mentioned; when that failed I googled "obamas chief financial advisors" and found:

See: Snopes

This appears to be a campaign lie spread by McCain.

Take Care
Rico

Snopes is the first place I check when I see something like that.  Good call Rico!

But to be fair, it's probably not McCain's campaign spreading it.  Just some grass roos interet loser.

I could give you a list of new bills planned by the Democratsin such an event, Snark. It's pretty ugly. And very unconstitutional.

Skip

Of course we do.

Skip

.

eagle61397 & snark,

The notion that there is somehow no Constitution these days is absurd and serves no useful purpose other than to try to demonize those with whom you disagree. The limited steps we took to deal with the terrorist threat in the wake of 9/11 were hardly extreme or even unreasonable.

The only impact on my life is a longer wait at the Airport and the fact I have to take off my shoes. Is it really any different for you? Unless it is your comment that you see no signs of a us still having a Constitution is a bit loony. Can't you make your point without resorting to overheated rhetoric?

If you think these steps are a serious blow to our freedoms just imagine how much it worse it could have been (and still could) if we another serious attack on American soil. The public outcry for even stricter controls will be louder and more vigorous than after 9/11. If you really care about our freedoms (as opposed to just bashing Bush) you should support and defend these limited measures to prevent another attack that might lead to a real infringement of liberty.

Our history is filled with examples where steps were taken in time of war far more serious that what we are dealing with now - let's not be unhinged here.

Brian

Quoting eagle61397:

Quote:
Quoting bbursiek:

Quote:

The notion that there is somehow no Constitution these days is absurd and serves no useful purpose other than to try to demonize those with whom you disagree. The limited steps we took to deal with the terrorist threat in the wake of 9/11 were hardly extreme or even unreasonable.

Did I say there wasn't a Constitution? No I didn't. I just quoted what Bush said, which was "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,' Bush screamed back. 'It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!" I just think that the President needs to follow the Constitiution and not just think that its "some piece of paper."

For example Bush says that his eavesdropping program is used to spy on "evil-doers," which is totally false and was proven yesterday when it found "despite pledges by President George W. Bush and American intelligence officials to the contrary, hundreds of US citizens overseas have been eavesdropped on as they called friends and family back home, according to two former military intercept operators who worked at the giant National Security Agency (NSA) center in Fort Gordon, Georgia." Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5987804&page=1

He wasn't referring to your post. He was commenting on Snark's assertion that we no longer had a Constitution .

Quoting bbursiek:

Quote:
eagle61397 & snark,

The notion that there is somehow no Constitution these days is absurd and serves no useful purpose other than to try to demonize those with whom you disagree. The limited steps we took to deal with the terrorist threat in the wake of 9/11 were hardly extreme or even unreasonable.

The only impact on my life is a longer wait at the Airport and the fact I have to take off my shoes. Is it really any different for you? Unless it is your comment that you see no signs of a us still having a Constitution is a bit loony. Can't you make your point without resorting to overheated rhetoric?

If you think these steps are a serious blow to our freedoms just imagine how much it worse it could have been (and still could) if we another serious attack on American soil. The public outcry for even stricter controls will be louder and more vigorous than after 9/11. If you really care about our freedoms (as opposed to just bashing Bush) you should support and defend these limited measures to prevent another attack that might lead to a real infringement of liberty.

Our history is filled with examples where steps were taken in time of war far more serious that what we are dealing with now - let's not be unhinged here.

Brian

My tounguie was pretty firmly in cheek with that comment, but the concern (to me) is extremely real.

Bush has had a vision of an imperial presidency that has the ability to ignore constitutional rights and to do so without court review. simply because he's CiC.  Nothing in the constitution grants him the right to wiretap at will or to detail people indefinately without trial. 

To compound this insanity he's been putting people on the federal bench who agree with this sort of thing.  As these are lifetime appointments it's a serious matter IMO.  The next president will benefit from what what Bush has wrought here.

I am not at all impressed with the rationale for or the reason behind this power grab.  Personally I don't think it makes us any safer.  And depending on who gets into office next, it could make us a whole lot safer.

I am glad Obama won the democratic nomination because the idea of Hillary with that sort of authority scares me senseless.  She at least as unprincipled as Bush and she's definately a lot smarter.  Not a good combination under the circumstances.

Back through Nixon I think the only presidents I feel might not abuse that authority are Reagan and Nixon. 

The power grab Bush has made will increase the power of the presidency in a dangerous way IMO.  Power over individuals without oversight is a scary thing.  And it's not just a question of whether Bush misued the power (he did)

Quoting eagle61397:

Quote:
Bush vs. The U.S. Constitution:

You need to have a president who understands you can't win this war with legal papers. We've got to use every asset at our disposal." --May 13, 2003, ABC News' Nightline.

"GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions" of the Patriot Act "could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.

"'I don’t give a goddamn,' Bush retorted. 'I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.'

"'Mr. President,' one aide in the meeting said. 'There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.'

"'Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,' Bush screamed back. 'It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!'" --Reported in Capitol Hill Blue, December 9, 2005.

In a word, cowpie.