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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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David Ogden Stiers |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
I am not sure I see where a single name field would help in linking. It would help because we would no longer have to worry about Helena/Bonham/Carter and Helena//Bonham Carter not linking anymore as it would simply be entered as "Helena Bonham Carter" Quote:
I really can see sorting issues without an additional field being added. I agree. The idea of a single name field has always gone hand in hand with a separate "sort name" field. |
| | Registered: May 10, 2007 | | Posts: 1 |
| | Posted: | | | | I can't provide a useful link because you have to be an alum to have access, but I just checked the University of Oregon Alumni Directory which lists him as:
Stiers, Mr. David 1964 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
I am not sure I see where a single name field would help in linking.
It would help because we would no longer have to worry about Helena/Bonham/Carter and Helena//Bonham Carter not linking anymore as it would simply be entered as "Helena Bonham Carter" The same thing could be accomplished by having the program ignore parsing. The CLT already ignores it, why can't the program? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
The CLT already ignores it, why can't the program? Yes, please!  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,195 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes, PLEASE! | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | another way of fixing this is to have a single rule with no exceptions.
So it would be
david / ogden / stiers
Helena / Bonham / Carter
i.e. first word in first field, last word in last field, all other words in 2nd field. Sorting done on last field.
If this rule were followed without exception then linking would always work. And this wouldn't rely on an excpetion list anywhere which the vast magority of users would never see if they didn't visit the forums.
And of course Ken could make a global change on the database to have all existing names moved into this format.
NOTE - I am not trying to build a database of real names via dvd profiler. I'm trying to make linking work and to have something which lists the actors in each film correctly. And if you removed the colour coding of the name then it would all appear as a single field on the screen. | | | | Paul |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pauls42: Quote:
another way of fixing this is to have a single rule with no exceptions.
So it would be
david / ogden / stiers
Helena / Bonham / Carter
i.e. first word in first field, last word in last field, all other words in 2nd field. Sorting done on last field.
If this rule were followed without exception then linking would always work. And this wouldn't rely on an excpetion list anywhere which the vast magority of users would never see if they didn't visit the forums.
And of course Ken could make a global change on the database to have all existing names moved into this format.
NOTE - I am not trying to build a database of real names via dvd profiler. I'm trying to make linking work and to have something which lists the actors in each film correctly. And if you removed the colour coding of the name then it would all appear as a single field on the screen. But, after you put this rule in place, a single-name field would do the same job. Once you change the meaning of the 'last-name' field to just be the 'last-word' you have no reason to sort by it! pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pauls42: Quote:
(***)
NOTE - I am not trying to build a database of real names via dvd profiler. I'm trying to make linking work and to have something which lists the actors in each film correctly. And if you removed the colour coding of the name then it would all appear as a single field on the screen. This would be the same as going to a single name field as the functionality, sorting by the last name field, will still be lost. Ken has indicated that he has no intention of doing that. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting pauls42:
Quote:
(***)
NOTE - I am not trying to build a database of real names via dvd profiler. I'm trying to make linking work and to have something which lists the actors in each film correctly. And if you removed the colour coding of the name then it would all appear as a single field on the screen.
This would be the same as going to a single name field as the functionality, sorting by the last name field, will still be lost. Ken has indicated that he has no intention of doing that. why would you lose the last name sorting? There are still three fields - there is still sorting being done on the last field. ?? | | | | Paul |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | But to have an absolute rule saying 1/2,2.1,2.2,2.3/3 would actually limit last name sorting
Now speaking US mainly
David Ogden Stiers --> David/Ogden/Stiers (accepted parsing in US) would sort on last name correctly
Helena Bonham Carter --> Helena/Bonham/Carter would not. It is accepted that Bonham Carter is her last name. so to sort correctly it would have to be Helena//Bonham Carter.
My personal opinion would be - If first time contributing name, without documentation then submit 1 2 3 as 1/2/3 (need to start somwhere). if documentation for otherwise then allow change.
or else go to 2 fields and contribute 12/3 unless otherwise proven.
BUT i feel we do need access to the entire online name DB during profile editing for it to work right. And make a match to a name as the rule, not the exception. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pauls42: Quote:
why would you lose the last name sorting? There are still three fields - there is still sorting being done on the last field. ?? Because what you suggest makes the last name meaningless. 'Steirs' is David Ogden Stiers' last name, so no problem there. 'Carter', however, is not Helena Bonham Carter's last name, so big problem there. While she should sort with the 'Bs', your suggested rule would put her in the 'Cs'. So, yes, you can sort on that field, but it won't sort properly. If you can't sort it properly, why have the field? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | It depends on how you define sort properly, Unicus. IF her data was consistent, which it is not, then sorting her by C would not be a big deal, BUT she is credited as H B-C sometimes and THAT causes the problem.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
It depends on how you define sort properly, Unicus. IF her data was consistent, which it is not, then sorting her by C would not be a big deal, BUT she is credited as H B-C sometimes and THAT causes the problem.
Skip Proper last name sorting usually means to sort alphabetically according to the first letters of the last name and not according to the first letters of the last word of the last name. Therefore sorting Mrs. Bonham Carter by C would not be correct even ignoring the "Bonham-Carter" spelling variant. Yes, I know that proper last name sorting can be even more complicated in some countries. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'll repeat what I said earlier: if nothing's going to change, can we at least get some kind of pinned thread where we collect known and documented (personally, I don't believe documentation on this exists at all, but hey, that's just me) double "last names"? I'd do it myself, but I'm afraid I'm really not the right person to do so...  But would really like to have something to refer no-voters - either way, that is - to. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting pauls42:
Quote:
why would you lose the last name sorting? There are still three fields - there is still sorting being done on the last field. ??
Because what you suggest makes the last name meaningless.
'Steirs' is David Ogden Stiers' last name, so no problem there.
'Carter', however, is not Helena Bonham Carter's last name, so big problem there. While she should sort with the 'Bs', your suggested rule would put her in the 'Cs'.
So, yes, you can sort on that field, but it won't sort properly. If you can't sort it properly, why have the field? It would be consistent. so if you look for the name in a sorted list then it would always appear under C. And any name could be searched for using last name. For the vast magority this would be correct. And Bonham Carter is her surname, her last name is Carter. | | | | Paul |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pauls42: Quote:
It would be consistent. so if you look for the name in a sorted list then it would always appear under C. And any name could be searched for using last name.
...and Kristin SCOTT THOMAS sorted among T, and CHOW Yun Fat among F ???  and I do not speak of Jean-Claude BOLLE REDAT, Maxime CHAPUT DAVID, Raouf BEN YAGHLANE, Olga GEORGE PICOT, Jacques DONIOL VALCROZE, Marthe MOUDIKI MOREAU, Nadine BEAUSSON DIAGNE, Philippine LEROY BEAULIEU, or Pierre François MARTIN LAVAL (this one with four words and no middle name...), who probably do not interest american users but are nevertheless in the database... that would kill correct sorting... and be unacceptable for many users... | | | | Images from movies |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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