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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Crew Credits: How do you want to track them? |
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| Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
  I have to ask because i hate inconsistency, Ace. What make writing special? The sam sort of problems exist elsewhere as well. Not really. Writing is about the only area where we generally want to track all credits. It's also the one that causes some of the most confusion under the current system. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,414 |
| | Posted: | | | | I contribute a share of cast and credit audits (I haven't for a while due to the switch to 3.6), but I will tell you now that there is NO WAY I am going to sit and enter all the credits to a movie, not when there are 500 sfx artists and caterers on any modern movie. Forget it. I can't think I'm alone. You will not grow the database with this change. | | | | "This movie has warped my fragile little mind." |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting gardibolt: Quote:
I contribute a share of cast and credit audits (I haven't for a while due to the switch to 3.6), but I will tell you now that there is NO WAY I am going to sit and enter all the credits to a movie, not when there are 500 sfx artists and caterers on any modern movie. Forget it. I can't think I'm alone. You will not grow the database with this change.  I rhink 98 % of the contributors think exactly this way  Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 20,111 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting gardibolt: Quote:
I contribute a share of cast and credit audits (I haven't for a while due to the switch to 3.6), but I will tell you now that there is NO WAY I am going to sit and enter all the credits to a movie, not when there are 500 sfx artists and caterers on any modern movie. Forget it. I can't think I'm alone. You will not grow the database with this change. Oh you're definitely not alone. There's just no way I'd even want to bother entering every single itsy-bitsy credit that's listed in a film.  | | | | Corey |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | While nobody is saying it, I have to believe that some of us are thinking it...because people won't want to enter all the credits by hand, someone will develope a tool to scrape the data from IMDb, and we will end up with a db full of IMDb crew. It already happens with cast, what makes us think it won't happen with crew?
Can I mark that as another HUGE con? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
So, I would like to ask the community to help me achieve this. I would like to see the 3 most important issues for and against open credits. Please make this list as succinct as possible Pros: 1. Everything gets entered. Cons: 1. Forget about having a working, linking database. It's incredibly flawed now and adding a gajillion more names gives you a useless database with nothing but names. 2. As others have mentioned, the language problem. 3. Less people will submit data. Let's face it, very few people are going to submit all credits. And I am continuing to beat my head against the wall why, with the problems the database has, there is discussion to make it even worse. Quote:
While nobody is saying it, I have to believe that some of us are thinking it...because people won't want to enter all the credits by hand, someone will develope a tool to scrape the data from IMDb, and we will end up with a db full of IMDb crew. It already happens with cast, what makes us think it won't happen with crew?
Can I mark that as another HUGE con? No.  It's no secret I'm an IMDB supporter. So that's how I do it for the most part, anyway (although I do not submit). IMDB's database is no more flawed than profilers, but IMDB's linking system actually works. If Profiler could get a database whose linking system actually works (RE: Lose the useless birth years), I will get behind whatever y'all want me too. :D | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | I currently enjoy contributing cast and crew. I will not -- repeat not -- contribute full open credits. Ever. Not even once. If someone here has done a full credit list for a modern film (making use of Other of course, and full as-credited roles), could you paste the crew list here in a post for us to see? We could copy it into our local database to have a look at it. Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
There are virtually no benefit to the existing system with ONE exception. the Crew Roles can be easily translated by non-english speakers and the translation files. If that isn't hyperbole, I don't know what is. The current crew system sorts and identifies many crew members in a film. It does not give you their exact as-credited role, but that's not necessary. If I want to find all of my films with scores by Marvin Hamlisch, I can do that. I won't be able to tell if he was credited as Music, Music by, Music Composed by, etc, but I'll be able to find his films. That's a benefit that you have overlooked. Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Not to mention all the arguments, discussions and bad feelings generated in the Forums. There have been arguments and bad feelings in the forums before we had crew. They won't go away. This is not going to be DVD Profiler Nirvana. Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Plus we can only list the data in the Order it appears within each category, we cannot really list the data in the order it is presented . Why would we want that? Director will be buried since it's usually the last credit in regular credits before the film begins. Why is that an advantage? Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Making the data Contributable for Custom Roles, this will only be of value if EVERYONE is required to make use of the Custom roles, otherwise it will have the same shortcomings explained above. Requiring people to use custom roles for contributions will really thin the herd in terms of who will still contribute. Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Full Open Credits See it, type it, in the order you see it, just like we do with Cast. This is far and away the best method. It's brainless data entry but results in unsatisfactory presentation, linking, translation, etc. It adds huge -- lets' say it again HUGE -- numbers of new duplicate names to the database requiring birth years. HUGE. Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
Translations for non-English speakers definitely problematic, the data will be the most accurate, see it type it and no more arguments are necessary. Fortunately I don't think Ken will choose to screw over his international customers so that you can choose to believe there are no arguments possible anymore. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Quote:
While nobody is saying it, I have to believe that some of us are thinking it...because people won't want to enter all the credits by hand, someone will develope a tool to scrape the data from IMDb, and we will end up with a db full of IMDb crew. It already happens with cast, what makes us think it won't happen with crew?
Can I mark that as another HUGE con?
No.
It's no secret I'm an IMDB supporter. So that's how I do it for the most part, anyway (although I do not submit).
IMDB's database is no more flawed than profilers, but IMDB's linking system actually works. If Profiler could get a database whose linking system actually works (RE: Lose the useless birth years), I will get behind whatever y'all want me too. :D I think you misunderstand. I, too, like IMdb. They, like Profiler, serve a purpose. Their purpose is to be a Movie database, and they serve that purpose quite well. It was the potential ramifications of having IMDb scraped data, uploaded into the Profiler database, that was the huge con. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Right Martian, this is a huge con and I think with open credits the imdb cloning will get more. >The more work you have, the more you're searching for an easier way< |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
1. Language issues, as crew roles are named totally different in different languages. I've already addressed this one a few pages back. Use an adapted form of the translations in the software. Quote:
2. Linking does not work anymore: For example, Director and Directed by or Written by and Screenwriter are no longer linked together in Full open credits. means if you want to search for Steven Spielberg Movies, you are not getting all entries.
Uhm, if I look at someone like Roland Emmerich I get all of his credits not just say his Director roles, Producer, etc... Surely it would continue to work the same way. Quote:
3. Too much work capturing millions of best Boy Electricians, 2nd unit assistants and so on (and do we really need to know those things ? )
5. Useability and Contibutions would become less and less atrractive for the "normal" user, as you need an hour or two to just do one contribution.
Again I've already addressed those. As things currently stand, no one is forced to enter all entries in a section. I don't think that would change. Also addressed was that we could add a check box so only credits you want are downloaded/visible in your local. | | | | Last edited: by Ardos |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
While nobody is saying it, I have to believe that some of us are thinking it...because people won't want to enter all the credits by hand, someone will develope a tool to scrape the data from IMDb, and we will end up with a db full of IMDb crew. It already happens with cast, what makes us think it won't happen with crew?
Can I mark that as another HUGE con? Yes you can Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Forget_the_Rest: Quote:
Quoting DarklyNoon:
Quote:
1. Language issues, as crew roles are named totally different in different languages.
I've already addressed this one a few pages back. Use an adapted form of the translations in the software.
Quote:
2. Linking does not work anymore: For example, Director and Directed by or Written by and Screenwriter are no longer linked together in Full open credits. means if you want to search for Steven Spielberg Movies, you are not getting all entries.
Uhm, if I look at someone like Roland Emmerich I get all of his credits not just say his Director roles, Producer, etc... Surely it would continue to work the same way.
Quote:
3. Too much work capturing millions of best Boy Electricians, 2nd unit assistants and so on (and do we really need to know those things ? )
5. Useability and Contibutions would become less and less atrractive for the "normal" user, as you need an hour or two to just do one contribution.
Again I've already addressed those. As things currently stand, no one is forced to enter all entries in a section. I don't think that would change. Also addressed was that we could add a check box so only credits you want are downloaded/visible in your local. Adapted forms of translation will not be there / work for every languge if I want to find which films are directed by Steven Spielberg, i do not want to know what he has produced, the search result will give me tons of unwanted and useless data. Do you actually think, as Mr. cellophane says, there would be more than maybe 10 users who really would contribute like 345 crew roles for every movie, I do not think so, and do you think KEN would revamp this program for 10 users, I do not think so. Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,879 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
So, I would like to ask the community to help me achieve this. I would like to see the 3 most important issues for and against open credits. Please make this list as succinct as possible Pros:--------------------- 1. No more questions or arguments about what to enter. All data would be WYSIWYT (What You See Is What You Type). 2. Capturing the credits exactly as presented for those who desire this, and you could contribute and share this data. i.e. "Directed By" instead of "Director"3. All data would be able to be included - if you wanted to enter and contribute the entire LotR fan club you could. Cons:--------------------- 1. Linking will likely become useless as the number of people with the same name will increase greatly. 2. Films with credits that are not in a language you read will have crew lists you do not understand i.e. "Directed By" will still say "Directed By" in any locality, whether or not the user reads English3. Films with credits not in the Roman alphabet will be unable to be entered at all (currently you may Romanize these alphabets if you are able to translate, but if WYSIWYT is the rule, this would be excluded) i.e. Cyrillic, Kanji, Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, etc.4. Full Open Credits would be a lot of work - EVERY profile would need to have a full re-audit of the crew. (sorry for listing 4 for the Cons...) | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield | | | | Last edited: by Danae Cassandra |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I think you misunderstand. I, too, like IMdb. They, like Profiler, serve a purpose. Their purpose is to be a Movie database, and they serve that purpose quite well. It was the potential ramifications of having IMDb scraped data, uploaded into the Profiler database, that was the huge con. Oh, no, I understand. I was being facetious. While I use IMDB mined data (for the most part) for my local, having a combination of the two in the database is not going to work for anyone. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
if I want to find which films are directed by Steven Spielberg, i do not want to know what he has produced, the search result will give me tons of unwanted and useless data.
As I said though, you already get all of his crew credits -  Quote:
Do you actually think, as Mr. cellophane says, there would be more than maybe 10 users who really would contribute like 345 crew roles for every movie, I do not think so, and do you think KEN would revamp this program for 10 users, I do not think so.
I can't remember if it was this thread or one of the other similar ones but I personally am only in favour of limited open credits using a basic outline of what is already allowed so the number of new entries won't vary greatly. However, if Ken did decide on full open credits and those people want to take the time to enter them, good on them. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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