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Somebody needs to go to jail...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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No argument there, Cassandra. There is plenty to go around, both sides of the mortgae, Congress, pick your favorite poison. Like I said though congratulations to you.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantbbursiek
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Danae Cassandra,

The CRA and attempts to "enforce it" were only part of the problem as Kurtz deals with the CRA in only the first portion of his article. The CRA and the leftwing activists attempt to "enforce it" led these liberal activists, lobbyists, and politicians to push to loosen of mortgage buying standards (deregulation) at Fannie and Freddie. The banks (and independent mortgage companies) then were able to make lots of risky loans - some to the poor and some to those looking to make a profit by speculating in the housing market (house flippers).

The notion that these groups (ACORN) were merely trying to "enforce" federal law is a somewhat twisted defense of what amounted to outright bullying, intimidation, and borderline extortion -- they used the law to coerce banks to do what they wanted -- whether their conduct violated the CRA was rarely litigated b/c banks were afraid of the costs and PR of such legal fights and found it easier to settle with the intimidators. They may have had good intentions about fighting the problems of the poor getting mortgages but their tactics and later lobbying for lower standards at Fannie and Freddie led to the subprime mortgage market being created. Here are a few choice quotes:

Quote:
At the same time, a wave of banking mergers in the early 1990's provided an opening for ACORN to use CRA to force lending changes. Any merger could be blocked under CRA, and once ACORN began systematically filing protests over minority lending, a formerly toothless set of regulations began to bite.


Quote:
ACORN’s efforts to undermine credit standards in the late 1980s taught it a valuable lesson. However much pressure ACORN put on banks to lower credit standards, tough requirements in the “secondary market” run by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac served as a barrier to change. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy up mortgages en masse, bundle them, and sell them to investors on the world market. Back then, Fannie and Freddie refused to buy loans that failed to meet high credit standards. If, for example, a local bank buckled to ACORN pressure and agreed to offer poor or minority applicants a 5-percent down-payment rate, instead of the normal 10-20 percent, Fannie and Freddie would refuse to buy up those mortgages. That would leave all the risk of these shaky loans with the local bank. So again and again, local banks would tell ACORN that, because of standards imposed by Fannie and Freddie, they could lower their credit standards by only a little.


Quote:
A mere month later, ACORN Housing Corporation president, George Butts made news by complaining to a House Banking subcommittee that ACORN’s efforts to pressure banks using CRA were still being hamstrung by Fannie and Freddie. Butts also demanded still more data on the race, gender, and income of loan applicants. Many news reports over the ensuing months point to ACORN as the key source of pressure on congress for a further reduction of credit standards at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. As a result of this pressure, ACORN was eventually permitted to redraft many of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac’s loan guideline.


Quote:
Another factor working in ACORN’s favor was that its increasing success with local banks turned those banks into allies in the battle with Fannie and Freddie. Precisely because ACORN’s local pressure tactics were working, banks themselves now wanted Fannie and Freddie to loosen their standards still further, so as to buy up still more of the high-risk loans they’d made at ACORN’s insistence. So by the 1993, a grand alliance of ACORN, national Democrats, and local bankers looking for someone to lessen the risks imposed on them by CRA and ACORN were uniting to pressure Fannie and Freddie to loosen credit standards still further.


The reality is that banks did ultimately become a major source of these bad loans because they were able to turn around and sell them to Fannie and Freddie in the secondary market and make a profit and pass the risk of the bad loans onto someone else. Fannie and Freddie did much the same by selling the bad debt to the finincial market as mortgage backed securities enabling major profits at Fannie and Freddie for chied executives including several who are advising Obama.

Quote:
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy up mortgages en masse, bundle them, and sell them to investors on the world market.


I think some of the people taking out these ARM loans knew they were taking a risk and other maybe didn't understand but clearly banks and mortgage companies saw the dollar signs that could be made by selling these bad loans and they did so. The question is how did the BUYING standards and Fannie and Freddie get downgraded to the point where they buy these crap loans? The answer is in Kurtz article -- ACORN using the CRA and the lobbying Congress and federal government to do so.

I'm not grasping at something to blame - there are plenty of parties responsible including wall street and banks but what I'm concerned about is the government interference in the marketplace at the behest of political lobbying (however well intentioned it might have been) is not getting the substantial attention it deserved.

Prominent Democrats blocked efforts from Bush, McCain, and others to rein in Freddie and Fannie in the last few years but no one is focusing on that prefering to rail against the wall street types who were at the end of the gravy train here -- not the beginning.

Brian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
Registered: May 26, 2007
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Quoting bbursiek:
Quote:


Prominent Democrats blocked efforts from Bush, McCain, and others to rein in Freddie and Fannie in the last few years but no one is focusing on that prefering to rail against the wall street types who were at the end of the gravy train here -- not the beginning.

Brian


If Bush was so interested in reining in Fannie & Freddie, why is it that his administration is the one that allowed the Housing and Urban Development and Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight to allow F&F to fulfill their affordable housing goals (not technically part of the CRA but often lumped with it) by buying subprime mortgage-backed securities?  It seems that if his administration was interested in reining in problems with F&F then they would not have deregulated this, and would have forced F&F to meet these goals in more traditional fashion.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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What makes this even worse is they plan another party next week!

http://www.buffalonews.com/180/story/458437.html
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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Totally despicable! 

And the justification provided by the company only goes to demonstrate Unicus' point: they haven't learned a darned thing.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantbbursiek
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Here is a 2002 article on one of the Bush Administration's efforts to provide more accountability at Freddie and Fannie.

Quote:
Proposals on Mortgage Agencies
Published: May 30, 2002
The Bush administration is urging new rules to require Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the largest purchasers of home mortgages, to make financial disclosures similar to those of other publicly traded companies.

The White House Office of Management and Budget sent a letter asking the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight, which is the main regulator of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, to ''extend generally applicable principles of governance and disclosure'' to the companies, which are publicly traded.

In the letter, John D. Graham, administrator of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, said that even though Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not subject to direct Securities and Exchange Commission oversight, they should be subject to standards similar to those that apply to other companies.
The letter is another challenge to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and their supporters, who have been fending off efforts to make the companies provide additional financial information, including registering their securities.
Representatives Edward J. Markey, Democrat of Massachusetts, and Christopher Shays, Republican of Connecticut, have introduced legislation to require the companies to register their stock at the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Such a move could force the companies to pay about $150 million in fees to register their debt securities. No action has been scheduled on the bill and no comparable effort has been introduced in the Senate.

In his letter to the oversight board, Mr. Graham said that issuing a new rule to enhance disclosures by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would be ''advancing the goals'' of the Bush administration's plans to promote corporate responsibility.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac issued statements saying they supported the president's goals. Both said their disclosure policies exceed current S.E.C. requirements.

Although the companies are not required to register their stock or debt securities or file financial statements, they publish annual ''information statements,'' updated quarterly, and a quarterly report for investors and analysts. Both are available on the companies' Web sites and are distributed to investors.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantbbursiek
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Here is a transcript of McCain's remarks about the effort to regulate Fannie and Freddie:

Quote:
FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005
The United States Senate

May 25, 2006

Section 16

Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]:

Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae's regulator reported that the company's quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were "illusions deliberately and systematically created" by the company's senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae's former chief executive officer, OFHEO's report shows that over half of Mr. Raines' compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator's examination of the company's accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac--known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs--and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO's report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO's report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantbbursiek
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
If Bush was so interested in reining in Fannie & Freddie, why is it that his administration is the one that allowed the Housing and Urban Development and Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight to allow F&F to fulfill their affordable housing goals (not technically part of the CRA but often lumped with it) by buying subprime mortgage-backed securities?  It seems that if his administration was interested in reining in problems with F&F then they would not have deregulated this, and would have forced F&F to meet these goals in more traditional fashion.


I'd be interested in reading the source of that information because the information I provided suggested that such behavior (buying subprime securities) by Fannie and Freddie started in the 1990s. However I will comment that imposing affordable housing goals and similar burdens on these agencies and banks is one of the major factors that created the subprime mortgage crisis. By mandating actions that are not consistent with sound financial management you create risks and that's what happened here.

Brian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwidescreenforever
Under A Double DoubleW
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting widescreenforever:
Quote:

The USA is now over ten Trillion in debt.,and adding over 300 billion a day to this debt.  Could Uncle Sam go bankrupt?.,,is there a possiblity???
.....


ooh Oh...  the clock has run out of digits...  better add a few more. digits.....   
In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.

Terry
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgardibolt
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There are more than two sides going on with the mortgages.  This was news to me.  I am on the board of a legal aid organization.  Obviously, there's been a lot of demand for assistance with issues connected with this situation.  We met with one of the lead attorneys on this to get a report; while I can't say everything, this much was in the public part of the meeting:  there are numerous clients who applied for loans, honestly disclosed their income and assets on the application, and turned it over to the mortgage broker (who gets paid a cut of the mortgage loan when it closes).  Apparently the mortgage broker either photocopied or otherwise forged their signatures on another loan application with completely phony income and assets for these people, and the loan---at a much higher interest rate and payments sometimes two or three times their actual monthly income--was approved by the underwriters (it's unclear to me whether the underwriters were in on the scam too, so I'll assume they were taken in too unless I hear otherwise, but they don't seem to have bothered to take step one to verify any of this information so it's not as if they're blameless either).  At the closing, the broker just says, sign here here here here and here without actually showing them the documents---we're not talking the best educated people here, so they did what they were told.  So now they're on the line for huge debts they can never repay, and their credit is ruined. The mortgage brokers of course have moved on to greener pastures or the Cayman Islands.  The attorneys have the photocopies of the original real applicatiions and the phony applications that were actually submitted to the underwriters unbeknownst to the clients, so it's not just the homeowners making this up.  When I asked how many cases they had like this, the response was "so far, many hundreds, possibly thousands, from the ones we've been able to get through."  And this was just in a mid-size city---I can't imagine how many there would be in Chicago or LA.  The ballsiness of these schemes is incredible, even before you get to the exotic credit derivatives and weird and incomprehensible things that the financial market was doing with these mortgages that were 100% built on phony paper.
"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantbbursiek
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Here is what I think is a thoughtful article about how America's culture of debt has contributed to the problem we are now facing.

Quote:

Posted on Thu, Oct. 9, 2008

Commentary

The Elephant in the Room: Meltdown has many culprits
Sure, Wall Street deserves some of the blame. But so do lots of U.S. borrowers.

By Rick Santorum

Who's to blame?
During the last few weeks, we've seen a bellyful of finger-pointing. But who really caused the financial meltdown?

Greedy Wall Street CEOs are the most popular whipping boys. A Wall Street friend told me that what went on there was nothing short of "collective insanity."

The Federal Reserve's easy-money policy, some regulatory relaxation by the Securities and Exchange Commission, new investment vehicles that made traditional products look so yesteryear, foolish decisions about the quality of these vehicles by the ratings agencies - all played key roles.

Hopping aboard these flashy new vehicles, Wall Street took a ride on a high-leverage roller coaster that seemed only to go up. The firms raced along, accumulating high-yield assets that, in saner times, would have been off-loaded as junk.

Given the heights to which this coaster ascended, the ride down is sure to be scary. But where did this junk come from?

Our current problems stem from the dramatic decline in the value of investments backed by the high-risk mortgages of everyday citizens. These mortgages might involve no money down, interest-only payments, adjustable rates, super-low introductory rates, "stated income" (also known as "liars' loans," as no proof of income was required), and so-called "NINJA" loans - an acronym for "no income, no job, no assets."

Why would lenders take on these high-risk subprime loans? They didn't. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae did, by agreeing to purchase them from the lenders.

Why would these government-sponsored organizations, with the implicit guarantee of Uncle Sam, back these loans? Politics. Democratic lawmakers conspired with the Democratic operatives who ran Freddie and Fannie in another failed government attempt to help the poor.

As a Senate Banking Committee member, I was lobbied nonstop by Freddie and Fannie executives when, along with John McCain, I tried to toughen regulation of this dangerous practice. Not a single Democrat joined us. Even though we passed the bill out of committee in 2005, it was killed on the Senate floor.

When energy-price spikes fanned inflation and squeezed borrowers, the Fed was forced to raise interest rates, causing payments on adjustable-rate mortgages to soar. The bubble in real estate values began to burst, wiping out whatever equity borrowers had.

None of this financial collapse would have occurred, however, without the participation of one last group of bad actors, a group so powerful that most politicians have avoided railing against it:

American borrowers.

This group includes homeowners who were delinquent on their mortgages - whether the unsophisticated, lured by the unscrupulous with promises of better living, or the savvy, who thought they could make a buck with little risk.

But many others also benefitted from easy-money policy. The truth is we all enjoyed the ride, with record credit-card debt, a negative savings rate, and home-equity loans.

What happened to living within our means, saving whatever we could, deferring gratification, and planning for the future?

We, and I include myself, have gone from "keeping up with the Joneses" to keeping up with the Madisons - Madison Avenue, that is. We have bought the line that "stuff" will make us happy, and that we deserve it, regardless of affordability. That goes for Wall Streeters and their estates in the Hamptons, middle managers and their suburban McMansions, and newlyweds and their starter homes.

I am often asked why, as a senator, I "harped" on cultural issues. The answer is that our beliefs, our choices and our character are not just private matters. They ultimately affect others. If enough people are privately irresponsible, whether financially or otherwise, all Americans suffer. Sometimes the suffering can even be measured in dollars and cents.

We are on our fourth bailout, with a fifth proposed Tuesday by McCain, and the crisis only deepens. Now, both he and his Democratic opponent, Barack Obama, want to shield Americans from the consequences of their behavior by bailing out irresponsible borrowers.

Anyone for a call to pay the piper, combined with an appeal for thrift, modesty, simplicity and sacrifice? Let's hope so.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRico
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Registered: April 8, 2007
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Hi Guys,

Brian - Nice posting, articulate & knowledgeable as always.

Quote:
Brian wrote:
Fannie and Freddie did much the same by selling the bad debt to the finincial market as mortgage backed securities enabling major profits at Fannie and Freddie for chied executives including several who are advising Obama.


This was mentioned in another post & I was quite shocked, I then did some searching and found:

See: Snopes

This appears to be an early campaign lie told by McCain. I'm relieved that this turned out to be just campaign shenanigans.

Take Care Amigo
Rico
If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantbbursiek
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Rico,

I too have seen the email mentioned in Snopes -- I knew it was exaggerated as to the extent and role of the former execs in the Obama campaign from my own reading on the subject. This should come as no surprise to anyone -- as most anonymous emails (especially about politics) circulating the internet are of often limited factual validity.

However I did not base my comment in my post on the exaggerrated email but rather on my understanding of the facts, which as the Snopes analysis acknowledges, did have Raines and Johnson advising/serving the campaign in some capacity. Particularly Johnson, which as Snopes notes, was picked by Obama to be one of 3 people vetting his VP choice -- clearly an important indicator that Johnson was an important advisor/friend/whatever to Obama at that time at least.

I would add that some of the Snopes "facts" are based on denials from the Obama campaign itself which logically would try to minimize the role/contacts these characters had with Obama. Raines role was seemingly more minimal but the history of Fannie donations to Obama over the years (2nd most of any Senator despite only being in the Senate for 4 years) suggests sone contact did exist between Obama and Fannie's disgraced leadership.

Brian
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRico
Strike Three
Registered: April 8, 2007
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Brian,

Quote:
Brian wrote:
However I did not base my comment in my post on the exaggerrated email but rather on my understanding of the facts, which as the Snopes analysis acknowledges, did have Raines and Johnson advising/serving the campaign in some capacity. Particularly Johnson, which as Snopes notes, was picked by Obama to be one of 3 people vetting his VP choice -- clearly an important indicator that Johnson was an important advisor/friend/whatever to Obama at that time at least.


Too which I would add that Johnson resigned early, from the VP search, when found to be dirty.

Also, this is an exaggeration, by the McCain campaign, in order to dis-credit the senator, for political advantage. It does not appear that anything illegal took place, regarding the donations. Also at the time of the donations, Raines was not, controversial figure he is today. So the contact probably was benign.

Take Care
Rico
If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
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Quoting bbursiek:
Quote:

I'd be interested in reading the source of that information

Brian


Since you asked, here is one.  I can (and will) go get others if you like.

Quote:

Blaming the CRA

By Alan White

The financial crisis is now being attributed by the Wall Street Journal editors and other right wingers to the Community Reinvestment Act. The CRA requires banks to provide loans and financial services in underserved communities, particularly poor and minority neighborhoods. This blame-the-victim theory does not withstand fact-based analysis.

The blame-the-CRA theory says that the subprime mess was caused by weak-hearted lenders pushed by misguided bureaucrats into making loans to poor people and minorities who can't repay them. Nothing could be further from the truth. First, subprime mortgages that are now defaulting in droves were made mostly by unregulated mortgage bankers with no CRA obligations or oversight. Second, the Alt-A mortgages that are a major part of the crisis were made mostly to middle-and upper-income white borrowers who didn't want to verify income or wanted a bigger loan than a prime lender would offer. Third, loans made by banks to fulfill CRA obligations, even those to very low-income homebuyers, perform quite well. Fourth, the only category of mortgages in which the foreclosure and default rates are not going up is the FHA program, a program that makes loans almost exclusively to low- and moderate-income Americans, many of them African-American and Latino. The bottom line is that it was the design of subprime mortgages, not the selection of borrowers, that caused them to default in massive numbers. Lenders can make sound loans to underserved groups, or they can make overpriced dangerously risky loans.

The only tiny grain of truth in this blame-the-CRA theory is that HUD, under the Bush Administration, agreed to give Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac credit for buying subprime mortgage-backed securities to meet their affordable housing goals. Fannie and Freddie's affordable housing goals are not technically part of the CRA but they are motivated by the same goals. The problem here is not the goal but the means. CRA and consumer advocates consistently opposed counting high-cost, high-risk subprime loans as meeting any bank or GSE's affordable housing goals, but the laissez-faire HUD and OFHEO regulators went along. The same right-wingers now blaming the CRA were praising subprime lending a few years ago as the solution to meet the needs of previously underserved homebuyers. CRA advocates, on the other hand, have never confused subprime lending with community reinvestment.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
 Last edited: by Danae Cassandra
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantbbursiek
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Danae,

Your article's author might be correctly characterizing the arguments of some conservatives but certainly not Kurtz whose article I quoted. He points the finger at the CRA as a factor in causing the crisis (one of many) not the sole cause and doens't argue that the % of defaulted loans was high in CRA cases. Your article's author also makes all kinds of assertions about the "facts" but doesn't provide details - also as I said hh knocks down an argument that most conservatives are not really making - i.e. that the CRA caused this mess by itself.

What Kurtz actually argues, quite persuasively in my view, is that the CRA + ACORN (and other well intentioned crusaders for the poor) + lobbying of Congress = lowering of accepted mortgage standards at Fannie and Freddie. Those lower mortgage standards led to banks making lots of subprime loans b/c they were now free to sell them to Freddie and Fannie and make money. This lead to all kinds of people (poor, middle class, rich, investors, etc.) being offered subprime loans. The loosening of regulations at Fannie and Freddie essentially created the subprime market b/c the lenders were now free to sell those loans to Fannie and Freddie and make the money while passing on the risk of the loans going bad.

Your article says:

Quote:
First, subprime mortgages that are now defaulting in droves were made mostly by unregulated mortgage bankers with no CRA obligations or oversight. Second, the Alt-A mortgages that are a major part of the crisis were made mostly to middle-and upper-income white borrowers who didn't want to verify income or wanted a bigger loan than a prime lender would offer.


The question that this comment begs is why did these lenders make these loans in the first place??? B/C as Kurtz explains they were now free to sell these loans to Freddie and Fannie when before the loosening of the mortgage restrictions they could not sell the subprime loans and therefore did not make them. The reality your author ignores is that the CRA + ACORN inadvertantly helped cause this crisis.

Brian
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