Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 ...12  Previous   Next
Ultimate Matrix Collection (Blu-ray): audio and subtitles
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I think the issue is that it is assumed that an R1US release, which you said this was, will be played on an R1US player with default settings.  Under those conditions, the Japanese subs and audio will not be available.  Adding something, that is only available when you change those settings, is a tad misleading.

Since you can't include the fact that player setting have to be changed to get the Japanese subs, I would be inclined to leave it out.

Esxcept by Easter Egg, Unicus

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Dragon 6:
Quote:
Why should I change my default language to something other than English when I only speak English. That is to much work for the thousands of titles to check and then turn my system back to my default settings.

Because some users do not care about the thousands of other users, or the impact a [articular idea might have ion them, they only want what they want in the way they want it. Compromise is unheard of and totally unacceptable.

As I noted this will take more than just a Rules mod, it will take a Prtogram modification to properly deal with the data in a clear way that communicates what is going on to ALL users.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
The japanese track exists, can be heard, can be found with tools, nothing allows anybody to refuse it, except for those who put the rules on a pedestal only when they suit what they wish.

Why must you include an insult in an otherwise decent post? 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Taro:
Quote:
And the following as easter egg:
Japanese, Spanish, French, Italian, Portugese

Correct? If this is how the rules are meant to be understood, I'll adapt my profiles and resubmit as such.

You just made one mistake, though: all tracks are indeed available to ALL decks. Depending on your personal settings in your player, certain tracks aren't displayed. However, by changing the settings, you can have access to ALL tracks with ALL decks. It is not a hardware related issues, it is a settings related issue.

I just went back and re-read the Easter Egg rule.  It reads, "Easter Eggs are extra features hidden on the disc and not accessible through an obvious menu option. Be sure to match language of the Easter eggs to the profile's locality."

Since these are not accessible through an obvious menu option, they might have to be entered as easter eggs.  I am not saying that is the case, just some food for thought.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,479
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:

Why must you include an insult in an otherwise decent post? 


There is no insult. Taro's contribution just got 6 no votes.

Rules : "If a user is following the Contribution Rules and his/her data is accurate..., a "No" vote is considered an abuse of the voting privilege and should be avoided when possible."

Where in the rules can we find something against Taro's contribution?
What allows those no votes ?
Why those who posted here against Taro's contribution are people who generally say (or teach) others to follow strictly the rules?
Images from movies
 Last edited: by surfeur51
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantGraveworm
Registered: April 7, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 357
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
It would be wrong according to the rules as has been pointed out not to submit this audio track. It is a Profile A locality US disk and has Japanese audio and subs encoded on the disk. The source that takes priority is the disk over the cover.

There have been several cases in DVD which pre date the current rules where there were audio tracks and subs that were not listed on the cover we always included them.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Graveworm:

Show me the Japanese track on the ENGLISH menus, it does not exist, as has already been stated, you must change the master Language setting. You cannot apply the Rule to this since there was no such thing , but keeping trying, I repeat the best answer for NOW is the Easter Egg.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLewis_Prothero
Strength Through Unity
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 6,730
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
Show me the Japanese track on the ENGLISH menus, it does not exist, [...]


But the problem is that the Japanese Track is accessable throughout the JAPANESE menu (which seems to be accessable in the rootmenu of the DVD ( otherwise tkinnens screenshot wouldn't have been possible). So if there are several mainmenus (for different localities) on a DVD (Blu) every feature that can be accessed throughout any of the available menus can and should be entered.
Nowhere in the rules I can find a paragraph that limits the features to the menu of the corresponding locality. This wouldn't make sense anyhow because in smaller countries (like for example all over Europe) it happens quite often that the selection of the mainmenu language limits the available Audio Tracks.
EDIT: And in multicultural environments like the USA, I don't think it's very unusual that a lot of players are set to the native language of the user, may it be japanese, chinese, spanish, english, german or whatever available language.
It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?


Registrant since 05/22/2003
 Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantGraveworm
Registered: April 7, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 357
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Where in the rules does it say that the subs/audio must be in the menus at all let alone the English menus. Isn't that racist to suggest that? The rules say the subs/language tracks have to be on the disk these are. Easter Eggs are for Features as it makes perfectly clear in the rules.

Am I right in thinking that your current view is that we can ignore the rules if we think that the makers of the rules didn't consider the issue when they wrote them?
 Last edited: by Graveworm
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMithi
Sushi Annihilator
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 2,217
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Dragon 6:
Quote:
Why should I change my default language to something other than English when I only speak English. That is to much work for the thousands of titles to check and then turn my system back to my default settings.

I'm totally confused, about what of "thousands of titles" are you talking?

There are two, and only, two scenarios that come to my mind:

Contributing: Either you go the "lazy road" and do not check for hidden audio tracks (or subtitles or anything else) or you do it and explain it in the contribution notes, both is totally fine.[1]

Voting on Contribution: Either you are willing to believe the contributor if he claims a hidden feature is there or you do the necessary extra work (explained in the contribution notes) to check and prove him wrong.

Now, let's assume Taro's profile is accepted (as normal audio track or easter egg, doesn't matter) and you want to make a change in one of those fields then, and only then, you'd have to change your setting to control it if you are not willing to accept the existing data in good faith.

cya, Mithi


[1] I go the lazy road on crew and cast for years, because I don't care about those both enough to warrant the extra time for me. Which on the other hand of course means that I don't vote on them either.
Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki
 Last edited: by Mithi
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTelecine
Regd: January 22, 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Australia Posts: 820
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
Graveworm:

Show me the Japanese track on the ENGLISH menus, it does not exist, as has already been stated, you must change the master Language setting. You cannot apply the Rule to this since there was no such thing , but keeping trying, I repeat the best answer for NOW is the Easter Egg.

Skip


I don't see how this issue is any different to determining how a disc is Region encoded, that doesn't appear the English menus either.

IMHO this is information that can be validly submitted within the current rules.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 2,506
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Telecine:
Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
Graveworm:

Show me the Japanese track on the ENGLISH menus, it does not exist, as has already been stated, you must change the master Language setting. You cannot apply the Rule to this since there was no such thing , but keeping trying, I repeat the best answer for NOW is the Easter Egg.

Skip


I don't see how this issue is any different to determining how a disc is Region encoded, that doesn't appear the English menus either.

IMHO this is information that can be validly submitted within the current rules.


You're right, it's no different. I also don't see it as being any different to re-ordering the audio tracks to their encoded order if it differs to the menu order. Not everyone can see that either but we still change them.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCalebAndCo
Ralphie shot first.
Registered: October 6, 2008
United States Posts: 1,932
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
The Rules are clear.  The presence of the Japanese subs and audio tracks is contributable data.  To omit them would be to incompletely report the data.  Since their presence may not be apparent, the contribution notes should be explicit.  Their absense from a menu in a particular language scenario is not germaine.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Graveworm:
Quote:
Where in the rules does it say that the subs/audio must be in the menus at all let alone the English menus. Isn't that racist to suggest that? The rules say the subs/language tracks have to be on the disk these are. Easter Eggs are for Features as it makes perfectly clear in the rules.

Am I right in thinking that your current view is that we can ignore the rules if we think that the makers of the rules didn't consider the issue when they wrote them?


ROFLMAO. Incredible.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTaro
Registered: February 23, 2009
Reputation: High Rating
Belgium Posts: 1,580
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Rules are clear, saying three times that this track has to be submitted :

"Select the appropriate content type and format type for each track" : each track

"Liist audio tracks in the order in which they are encoded on the disc..." : encoded on the disc

"Use the Audio specified on the DVD Cover unless you can verify there is a discrepancy between that and the actual Audio included on the disc" : unless you can verify there is a discrepancy.

The japanese track exists, can be heard, can be found with tools, nothing allows anybody to refuse it, except for those who put the rules on a pedestal only when they suit what they wish.

Thanks Surfeur, you translate my feelings and ideas exactly. I think it's a pity that some users (you know who you are) use the rules to the letter when it suits their needs. When it doesn't suit their needs, all of a sudden the rules aren't written in stone anymore.

It makes me want to quit submissions all together and just stick to my local database. I agree that local preferences should be kept local, but in this case it's clear that hard data is being thrown in the garbage because of yet again a small but vocal group.

Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Taro:
Quote:
And the following as easter egg:
Japanese, Spanish, French, Italian, Portugese

Correct? If this is how the rules are meant to be understood, I'll adapt my profiles and resubmit as such.

You just made one mistake, though: all tracks are indeed available to ALL decks. Depending on your personal settings in your player, certain tracks aren't displayed. However, by changing the settings, you can have access to ALL tracks with ALL decks. It is not a hardware related issues, it is a settings related issue.

I just went back and re-read the Easter Egg rule.  It reads, "Easter Eggs are extra features hidden on the disc and not accessible through an obvious menu option. Be sure to match language of the Easter eggs to the profile's locality."

Since these are not accessible through an obvious menu option, they might have to be entered as easter eggs.  I am not saying that is the case, just some food for thought.
Incorrect. The audio tracks and subtitles are accessible through menus, as shown by the screenshot on page 1 of this thread.
Blu-ray collection
DVD collection
My Games
My Trophies
 Last edited: by Taro
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Oh puhlease, give me a break. First someone makes an utterly absurd comment. Now you want to whione about YOUR way. I have offered you a perfectly reasonable option to handle this NOW, until the program is appropriately modified so that what YOU want is not misleading or confusing to others. You are presenting yourself as very selfish, and if it won't be YOUR way, you will quit.

Good lord. This topic no longer has any validity for me, it has revealed far more than i wanted to know about several users.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 ...12  Previous   Next