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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
Contributing Flip-covers
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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I have to agree with Forget...though I am perplexed as to why they feel the need to make the rating so big.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Registered: May 1, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 6,744
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
though I am perplexed as to why they feel the need to make the rating so big.

As are we.
Karsten
DVD Collectors Online

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
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United Kingdom Posts: 2,506
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I can only speculate. Perhaps there had been various reports of selling to underage people & shops were using an excuse that they weren't sure about the rating as it wasn't prominent enough so they made sure that couldn't be used anymore.

I've got a couple of German releases in my collection & on them the rating is only on the back and fairly small (although a lot more prominent than US/Canadian releases). Adding it to the front means that everyone is fully aware of its rating.

As I say, it's only speculation. Unless they announced an official reason, it's all we can do.

Edit: I've just done a bit of looking around and it seems that the official reason was
"The design and position of the labels have been modified.
The new signs have to be fixed on the front of the cover on the bottom left side on an area comprising at least 1200 mm² (3.46 cm x 3.46 cm) as well as on the image carrier on an area comprising at least 250 mm² (1.58 cm x 1.58 cm) (§ 12 para. 2 clause 2 JuSchG [Jugendschutzgesetz, i.e. German law for the protection of children and youth])."

English Source
German Source
 Last edited: by Ardos
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhpopp
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Germany Posts: 1,506
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Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
Quote:
Edit: I've just done a bit of looking around and it seems that the official reason was
"The design and position of the labels have been modified.
The new signs have to be fixed on the front of the cover on the bottom left side on an area comprising at least 1200 mm² (3.46 cm x 3.46 cm) as well as on the image carrier on an area comprising at least 250 mm² (1.58 cm x 1.58 cm) (§ 12 para. 2 clause 2 JuSchG [Jugendschutzgesetz, i.e. German law for the protection of children and youth])."


Or they just could have enforced better controls that shops do not sell DVDs with a higher rating to younger customers as it has always been the law. If cashiers do not care to look at a ratings-label before, what makes them think they will pay closer attention to that problem with bigger labels? Why not have the labels fill out the whole cover? 
Of course this has nothing to do with the fact that there are elections in Germany this fall and some politicians have to show to their older voters that they do so much to protect our children 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhpopp
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Thank you all for the valuable input. In general I can agree to arguments of both sides. I mainly brought this thread up to get some attention to the fact that this problem is not addressed in the contribution rules and since this law will most likely not go away overnight, this problem will become worse with german releases in the future.

I will not contribute scans of covers without the logo, if this is the only difference. If I find scans where I think my scans might be considerably better (sharpness, colour-space, etc.), I will submit them (as long as it is not forbidden by the contribution rules), not to get rid of the label, but to get better scans into the database. I will not do an extra scan of the covers with the logo just to put them online. If the screeners or the majority of the users decide that the covers should be contributed with the ratings-label, I will accept that and not contribute such scans any longer.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpaulb_99
PSN-ID: Magnolia-Fan
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 868
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Quoting hpopp:
Quote:
Of course this has nothing to do with the fact that there are elections in Germany this fall and some politicians have to show to their older voters that they do so much to protect our children 


On a side note: i guess this is probably also te reason why they want a ban on all violent games. Just to show, in response to the school shooting this year, we care and we take action.

Not only can they never uphold this law, people living near the borders can buy games in other countries, (Remember Carmageddon, with the green blood in Germany and Red blood in Holland, the dutch shops near the border nerver sold that many games!), or you buy the games online.

They also have absolutely nothing to back up the claim games (or movies) lead to violence.

Paul
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantrincewind
phpmyprofiler dev
Registered: March 13, 2007
Germany Posts: 51
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Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:

They also have absolutely nothing to back up the claim games (or movies) lead to violence.

Tell this her
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience.


Wir gegen die Gier - Joseph Weizenbaum (1923 - 2008):
Nichts wird unsere Kinder und Kindeskinder vor einer irdischen Hölle retten.
Es sei denn: Wir organisieren den Widerstand gegen die Gier des globalen Kapitalismus.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:
They also have absolutely nothing to back up the claim games (or movies) lead to violence.

Paul

Yea, but it is easier to blame games, movies, television, etc. than it is to blame the parents who have abdicated their responsibility of raising their children.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBerak
Bibamus morieundum est!
Registered: May 10, 2007
Norway Posts: 1,059
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:
They also have absolutely nothing to back up the claim games (or movies) lead to violence.

Paul

Yea, but it is easier to blame games, movies, television, etc. than it is to blame the parents who have abdicated their responsibility of raising their children.


Hear hear!!! 
Berak

It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all!
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantweio
Registered: March 13, 2007
Austria Posts: 96
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I just don't understand you guys.
We do this for _us_. Not for anybody else.
So anyone in here agreed that this abominations are just a torture for our eyes but the most of you would like to see them in the program. I don't get it.
The information is not lost if we take the flip cover. There is a field in profiler where you can see the rating. Nothing is lost.
I've just scanned the abomination-free "So finster die Nacht/Let the right one in" cover version but won't contribute it although I think they are better in quality.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTaro
Registered: February 23, 2009
Reputation: High Rating
Belgium Posts: 1,580
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I have to agree with Forget...though I am perplexed as to why they feel the need to make the rating so big.

The most likely reason is to cover their asses, legally speaking, in case some underage kid does something stupid inspired by a movie.

I agree with your stance that it's first and foremost the parents' responsibility. I've seen quite a few action and horror movies as a kid, but thanks to the effort my parents put into my upbringing, I was always able to place what I saw on screen in the correct context and have never even had the urge to mimick a movie's violence or gore.

Quoting weio:
Quote:
I just don't understand you guys.
We do this for _us_. Not for anybody else.
So anyone in here agreed that this abominations are just a torture for our eyes but the most of you would like to see them in the program. I don't get it.
The information is not lost if we take the flip cover. There is a field in profiler where you can see the rating. Nothing is lost.

Yes, that's also a valid point.
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 Last edited: by Taro
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
Registered: May 26, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,879
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I work in a store that sells DVDs and video games.  Over the years I've seen a lot of kids come through, with and without parents.  We've been able to see the same kids as the years progress.

Overall - and mind you, this is just my personal experience - the kids whose parents buy them whatever-the-heck they want seem to grow up to be rude little snots.  I've had parents of children as young as 6 ask if we have Grand Theft Auto.  I've seen these same kids grow into tweens & teens who are some of the most obnoxious individuals to come into our shop, some of which we have thrown out. 

Did the games & movies make them this way?  No.  Did bad parenting - exhibited in one symptom by purchasing games & movies that are not age appropriate - make them this way?  Absolutely.

On the other side, one woman I am acquainted with has three of the most well-behaved lovely children I have seen.  But she not only pays scrupulous attention to the ratings, she also spends time and effort with her children, and enforces discipline, all of which I seem to see far too lacking in other parents I see in the store.

Making these ratings larger and more prominent on the package will not curtail this phenomenon.  We had a store policy of telling parents about the content of the game when GTA San Andreas came out.  Didn't stop them from picking the game up for their child.  Only those who were unaware of games having ratings did this help - in general, grandparents. 

Ultimately no government program in any country is going to cure bad parenting.  Most parents simply want a scapegoat to blame little Johnny's bad behavior on rather than take responsibility for parenting him themselves. 

(Wow that all sounds harsh.  I generally think of myself as a flaming left-wing lib, but I'm fed up.)
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 2,506
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Quoting weio:
Quote:
I just don't understand you guys.
We do this for _us_. Not for anybody else.
So anyone in here agreed that this abominations are just a torture for our eyes but the most of you would like to see them in the program. I don't get it.
The information is not lost if we take the flip cover. There is a field in profiler where you can see the rating. Nothing is lost.


I've had a few profiles where the submitted rating has been wrong for one reason or another. If we submit the inside cover, to find out the actual rating we'd have to dig out the DVD to find that out. Doing it this way, it's a quick glance to see if they match.

I do agree that they're unsightly but it's something that I'm used to living in the UK, all of our titles carry the BBFC rating & most but not all also carry the Irish rating as well.

It's a good job we don't have to scan the discs - I've got quite a few that have UK, Irish, German, and then a few whose ratings I can't recall off the top of my head. I think the most different ratings I've seen on one disc was 6.

Edit: Cass, while I agree to an extent, I've often heard the excuse "I didn't know it was that bad for my kid" or similar. By making the logos more prominent that wont wash anymore and will make it more difficult to blame someone else if they've got an 18 rated DVD where the logo is font size 100 they can't say they didn't see it.
 Last edited: by Ardos
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
Registered: May 26, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,879
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Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
Quote:

Edit: Cass, while I agree to an extent, I've often heard the excuse "I didn't know it was that bad for my kid" or similar. By making the logos more prominent that wont wash anymore and will make it more difficult to blame someone else if they've got an 18 rated DVD where the logo is font size 100 they can't say they didn't see it.


But that's exactly what that is - an excuse.  If someone actually means "I didn't know it was bad for my kid" when they're buying Grand Theft Auto or any of the Saw movies for their child, then that is such a spectacular display of stupidity that no size difference of the rating is going to change that.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
 Last edited: by Danae Cassandra
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
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The uninformed public would blame other people. In a similar line, the BBFC now rates more and more games. Why? Because they simply didn't understand the numerous ratings by PEGI/ELSPA, etc...

While the two examples you give are fairly clear what they're about, not all are. For example, a real life situation, someone I used to know rented Childs Play for her children thinking it was a comedy (I think she was mixed up between that and Problem Child).

Do I think that ideally it should be necessary to display these large ratings on everything? No but unfortunately, when we live in a society that can sue a company because they don't say that tea might be hot, or a pack of peanuts that doesn't say may contain nuts, I believe it is necessary.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTraunStaa
Registered: June 2, 2009
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 305
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Quoting weio:
Quote:
I just don't understand you guys.
We do this for _us_. Not for anybody else.
So anyone in here agreed that this abominations are just a torture for our eyes but the most of you would like to see them in the program. I don't get it.

I second that opinion (see mine on the first page of the thread).
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