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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Removing uncredited from a new release that was cloned from another DVD. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote: All that matters for contribution purposes is Ken's (repeated) stance on the issue, as Unicus was kind enough to provide. Anything else is called personal preference. And in my humble opinion Ken's logic is completely flawed on this matter. As long as screeners continue to allow data to be copied without throwing it out for lack of documentation, then it should be removed, pending Documentation to back it up. this is one of the problems i have with cloned data and why I will never clone a Profile, every profile here gets built from scratch per the information from THAT particular disc. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,494 |
| Posted: | | | | I can never understand how a film from say 1966 has a running time of say 128 min., can be RE issued using the same running time of 128 minutes, and be of the same year.. 1966 , but you can't clone the cast and crew as they may be different.. Are we living in Bizarro World??
(Even if the movie has an extra scene or two , and those actors were picked up off the cutting room floor., , then reinserted .. You quite often find the credit roll of cut actors are most always included in reedited screen version a week after first release.) | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Terry:
I don't understand why Hollywood would release a movie with different cast and crew data listings either, but the fact is that they do. They never listen to me, lol. It drives me crazy but i see it far more frequently than I like, and it gets in the way when i see it. For example, conceptually, I like the idea of being able to edit a copy of Airplane! and have all changes made globally, but the reality is that may or may not be valid, and the only way to be SURE is to own every copy of every version of any given film. I am not that NUTS.<shrugs> Worse yet sometimes the changes are subtle and sometimes they are significant.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,004 |
| Posted: | | | | Do you have examples of different credits in a way that would affect us without a different cut of the movie, locality change, etc? I'd think that even if such things occasionally happen, a cloned cast is better than no cast at all. If it's wrong, we can always fix it later. | | | Last edited: by Ace_of_Sevens |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 1,777 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote: The question I would have;
How do you prove that they are not there, to the satisfaction of the voters and screeners?
I don't want to sound sarcastic, but it is a lot easier to prove somebody is there.
for example, per web a and web b, Jane Doe appears as Emma Smith at time 1:32:12. Acceptable for adding uncredited
For uncredited, if I don't know what Jane Doe looks like, all I can do is presume. So what proof (or realistically lack of proof), to justify removal of uncredited cast? Interesting question. I just picked up Ziegfeld Follies and entered it into my collection not long ago. Got the profile and, sure enough, a mountain of uncredited. Started going through the list and we get all the usual suspects...someone credited for scenes deleted, a few guys credits as wearing masks (?!), and my personal favorite, folks credited without any role. I mean, somebody went through all the trouble to identify that this person was in the movie, but couldn't bother to document what they were doing in the film? Not even something simple like, person in the crowd? Yeah, that's good data. I will say that in most all of these cases, absolutely no proof was offered to add this stuff so the irony of being forced to offer proof that somebody isn't there is rather rich. | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
| Registered: June 12, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,665 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote: Do you have examples of different credits in a way that would affect us without a different cut of the movie, locality change, etc? Dave Chappelle in Con Air | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | ace:
Good lord do you think i keep up with that. I can tell you this, over a year ago, I tried an experiment. I announced it publicly in the forums and asked for assistance in sorting through it. It was based on what seemed a reasonable assumption, that one film would have the same set of Credits regardless of Region, Locality or version. It took less than a week before someone provided information that disproved the theory, I don't remember the specifics anymore, they aren't really relevant. What is relevant is that while the assumption may hold up 95-99% of the time, that's not enough, one error is one error too many and we have thousands, if not millions of errors to correct already, without adding more and more based on a faulty assumption.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,004 |
| Posted: | | | | I woudd generally remove all uncredited without a listed role as there's no way to verify them. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | That's ceratinly a valid one,. tweeter.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,004 |
| Posted: | | | | Thanks, but my point stands. When a new version of Con Air out, a list of credits with Dave instead of David is preferable to no credits. I would be careful about replacing existing cast lists with cloned data, though. |
| Registered: May 9, 2008 | Posts: 467 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote: Do you have examples of different credits in a way that would affect us without a different cut of the movie, locality change, etc? I'd think that even if such things occasionally happen, a cloned cast is better than no cast at all. If it's wrong, we can always fix it later. There was a post here a while ago with pictures showing the same movie having different variants of a credit for the same actor between the DVD and Blu-Ray release (I think). Not having luck finding it with search right now. EDIT: tweeter found the one I was thinking of | | | Last edited: by tkinnen |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote: Thanks, but my point stands. When a new version of Con Air out, a list of credits with Dave instead of David is preferable to no credits. I would be careful about replacing existing cast lists with cloned data, though. Ace: And this is why in every post that talks about cloned data or how to do it, if I post I always say the same thing everytime. Can we all say it together. If you are going to clone data, at least verify that the data you are cloning matches the data from the disc you have in your hand.I think i need to put music to that, then we can sing it, maybe in three-part harmony. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: April 7, 2007 | Posts: 357 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Jubal: Quote: Can we all say it together.
If you are going to clone data, at least verify that the data you are cloning matches the data from the disc you have in your hand.
Skip I wish people would as well. I do. Having said that we never agree that data with a high probability of being correct is better than no data. In this case as in many other areas of confusion Ken has been clear that another accepted profile can be the source with no further documentation. If that is the case I have 2 choices vote yes or Neutral. I would suggest you have the same choices unless you think that it is acceptable to vote No even if Ken has indicated the contrary in the forums? In which case you may have to revise your position from a couple of threads where Ken has agreed with your stance? |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,494 |
| Posted: | | | | Let's take the 1939 film of Gone With The Wind,, running times vary between 222 and 232 minutes . (depending on Overture/Intermission/ entr'Acte/and exit music cues can all run havoc on the running time.,) The Movie itself is today out on 2 versions of DVD ( soon to be 3 with BD later this year), So the 1998 DVD was loaded with Dozens of uncredited names which to me looked like an IMDB clone.,which came to my attention a few years back ( 2004), when The film was released on a 4 disc set with the main movie on two discs. After finishing the cast for the dividers in place for the all the opening credits ( there was no closing credits in those days), I was informed that all the uncredited cast I removed for the special 4 disc ed was wrong as the uncredited names are all included in a special booklet that came with the 2004 edition. The 1998 edition was approved with no uncredited , Why? because They appeared to be an IMDB clone as well as there was no booklet. So what will happen this fall ,, IF Blue ray releases the 2004 Special ED. without a commerative booklet? But the 1998 (ala 2k 2004) ediiton is the same version a 4k Ultra-Resolution transfer and archival video master was achieved for BlueRay and HD TV ., .
Which clone shall we take it's cast from ? the 1998 or 2004 edition? There are both the same movie. | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry | | | Last edited: by widescreenforever |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | LOL, terry< I won't take the clone data from either version. The BD version here will stand on its own merits and the credits, same or different will come from the film itself and the profile built from scratch.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,018 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Jubal: Quote: Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote: All that matters for contribution purposes is Ken's (repeated) stance on the issue, as Unicus was kind enough to provide. Anything else is called personal preference. And in my humble opinion Ken's logic is completely flawed on this matter. Skip It's a free country, but that does not change the fact that your humble opinion is completely irrelevant for the purpose of contributions to the Invelos database, which BTW is owned by Ken, not you. You cannot come to these forums and with regard to SOME issues say that Ken has spoken and his word should be followed and then as soon as you don't like Ken's stance on a different issue defend a different line of action. That would be inconsistent and deprived of any form of logic. As you always say: you're free to do anything you want LOCALLY. It's called a PERSONAL PREFERENCE. | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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