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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Enough is enough |
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| Registered: May 8, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hmmm, I think I can call myself also one of the people who contribute alot, right now I am wading thru every title I own and submitting new scans where I think it is needed. I also think that those kind of threads are not needed, but what really wonders me the most is, how personally some people take things here. If someone votes "NO", I read why he did it, if I agree with him, i change my contribution, if not I will let it as it is and wait for the screeners to decide. If it gets rejected, that is life, I will keep it local then. Why should I or someone else be personally offended by "NO" vote ? That is beyond me  The only thing I would understand is when a "No" vote is a personal attack. For example: "No, you suck, get new eyes, this scan is the worst I have seen!" Such a "No" vote would of course leave me wondring at the sanity of the "No" voter, but would I stop contributing then ? Hell no!, It's fun contributing and why should I let this be ruined by an abusive user. But if a "No" vote says: "Sorry the colors seem off to me, I like the exisiting scans better" , I and no one else should have a problem with this, it is a matter of taste. just my 2 cents here cheers Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
The point is this: some 'oldtime' users who have been around for a decade get frustrated when their contributions are criticised by users who know nothing but think they know everything.
It's also frustrating when users who sit back and do nothing expect others to do all the work for them - but still criticise when that work has errors. Amen!   Skip, even though I don't see your contributions too often, I can see some of the feedback they arise. And I have to agree with you up to a certain point. It's very strange that contribution errors made by you tend to end up in the forum for public malice. It always seem to be the same names that occur in this ritual "Skip"-bashing. This might (and will) be, because you opened up the gates for personal vendettas: someone who is aiming for perfection (and is demanding this goal from his fellow-users too) shouldn't be too surprised about the reactions when an error is discovered. These are predictable and all too human. I for one am sorry to see you stop contributing (again). I'm quite sure you will reconsider this decision in times to come.  | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
Hmmm,
I think I can call myself also one of the people who contribute alot, right now I am wading thru every title I own and submitting new scans where I think it is needed.
I also think that those kind of threads are not needed, but what really wonders me the most is, how personally some people take things here.
If someone votes "NO", I read why he did it, if I agree with him, i change my contribution, if not I will let it as it is and wait for the screeners to decide.
If it gets rejected, that is life, I will keep it local then.
Why should I or someone else be personally offended by "NO" vote ?
That is beyond me
The only thing I would understand is when a "No" vote is a personal attack.
For example: "No, you suck, get new eyes, this scan is the worst I have seen!"
Such a "No" vote would of course leave me wondring at the sanity of the "No" voter, but would I stop contributing then ?
Hell no!, It's fun contributing and why should I let this be ruined by an abusive user.
But if a "No" vote says: "Sorry the colors seem off to me, I like the exisiting scans better" ,
I and no one else should have a problem with this, it is a matter of taste.
just my 2 cents here
cheers
Donnie Donnie: Lett me be clear. I am NOT offended by a No vote. I am offended at those who improperly cast a No vote or use their No vote to attempt to manipulate the online, that is offensive and insulting to me. If the No vote is valid I fix it. But No votes that are not valid or as in some cases based on a rule made up by the user offend. I have also said before and I was serious, if you aren't willing to send me a PM, then please do all of us a favor and DO NOT vote. I want the PM, that is the surest way to get my attention, and when I had upwards of 100 Contributions pending at any given time, then it is all to easy to overlook a valid no vote. If you will not PM me with a problem then don't vote, but that's now irrelevanty as I am done and removing evrything that I had pending. The big problem to me is that some users have an agenda, I know what the agenda is and it offends me that it is allowed to continue. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting goblinsdoitall: Quote:
Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
The point is this: some 'oldtime' users who have been around for a decade get frustrated when their contributions are criticised by users who know nothing but think they know everything.
It's also frustrating when users who sit back and do nothing expect others to do all the work for them - but still criticise when that work has errors.
Amen!
Skip,
even though I don't see your contributions too often, I can see some of the feedback they arise. And I have to agree with you up to a certain point. It's very strange that contribution errors made by you tend to end up in the forum for public malice. It always seem to be the same names that occur in this ritual "Skip"-bashing. This might (and will) be, because you opened up the gates for personal vendettas: someone who is aiming for perfection (and is demanding this goal from his fellow-users too) shouldn't be too surprised about the reactions when an error is discovered. These are predictable and all too human.
I for one am sorry to see you stop contributing (again).
I'm quite sure you will reconsider this decision in times to come. Goblins: I don't have problem with perfection and I always say good enough is not good enough, even when I get trapped by the Contribution from hell. But I have no time for the chjhildish behavior of these people who have a very clear personal vendetta, they waste their time and everyone else's. Let me give you a for instance from Rick. her left a No vote mumbling something about formatting, it took me an HOUR to find what in the hell he was talking about...my time is worth a lot of money and I don't appreciate him wasting my time, a PM detailing the problem that needed to be fixed would have been far more useful, than him salving his personal vendetta and wasting my time. Last time I stopped Contributing it was 18 months before I came back in any serious way, I don't see myself returning with Contributions until there are some very serious changes made in Profiler. What kind of changes, well let's say that I was involved in a board by this particular user, and he had a Karma system setup (Reputation System) and it became a game for the people on that board to act like children and drive two others just as low in karma ratings as they could , in short they behaved like bunch of schoolyard jerks and they were treated as such. Those same users came here a prevailed upon Ken to institute a Reputation so that they could attempt gag users that tjhey did not like and I am sure that it frosts them no end that they have not been successful at gagging abnyone, but all too sadly these same user HAVE succeeded in driving of MANY MANY users.. You should see some of the PMs I get from users asking me what is with this jerk or jerk, or why does this guy follow you around and just snipe at you without ever really adding anything to a discussion. I also get PMs which are critical of me and that is fine as well. But I get far more PMs complaining about the lsit of users which is predictable and everyone of you could probably compile. I got one the other day asking me why this particular user had 2 gold stars and what does that mean> I explained it to him and even explained why he got 2 Gold Stars, and the response to me for defending this user was not very complimentary towards him<Sigh>. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 18, 2007 |  Posts: 232 |
| | Posted: | | | | If you feel someone has an agenda, not suited for this service, why not report them? Giving up really doesn't benefit anyone besides the users polluting the databases.
If this is about scans, then I know how frustrating this can be, when most users have different monitors and uses their eyes to judge. What looks great on one moitor can look bad on another. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have seen several contributions from Skip lately... especially on the TV Series child profiles that I have. And I seldomly had a reason to PM/Vote No. So I for one am sorry to see him stop contributing again. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gemini76: Quote:
If you feel someone has an agenda, not suited for this service, why not report them? Giving up really doesn't benefit anyone besides the users polluting the databases.
If this is about scans, then I know how frustrating this can be, when most users have different monitors and uses their eyes to judge. What looks great on one moitor can look bad on another. Gemini: Do you really think I haven't. The response is always block their PMs or block themin the Forums, both of which are unacceptable to me, I consider both of those options to be exceptionally childish, and ONLY representative of someone unwilling to engage in debate. This is about many things including scans that is part of a Contribution many times. This an ongoing discussion about scans that I have witha prticular friend and i think we both see the other's ideas, but the point from my view point is that regarding scans, there are few if any that go to the extremes that I go to relative to images, and still there are some that I just cannot deal with well...perhaps new hardware or someday learning a new technique will make a difference for those nasty ones. But it is a lot of things beyond just the images. That is only a prt of it. And youy are right, my not Contributing is of no help to anyone and actually deoprives me of something that I enjoy doing. But neither will i suffer fools and idiots well, it is my big weakness, I never have and I never will. And I have zero tolerance for people who create their own Rules, or use their votes as some sort of weapon. Sometimes I actually am forced tomvote Yes, I don't like it, but perhaps the user has found a loophole that he can exploit successfully. But if and when I vote NO you can be sure it is legitimate. I also have very little respect for users, as one indicated recently, who walk away from their Contributiomns and do very little back up monitoring, all that does is guarantee that excepty under an extreme circumstannce , said user is getting bad data into the database. OH well. I have to quity ranting, lol. Gemini I am with you, but it just isn't viable.  Skip P.S. One of most bizarre comments and most obvious indicators of a user with a personal vebndetta or just a simple grudge is as follows. My Contribution Notes said the following Overview edited for en dash The unidentified voter voted No with following comment "no source listed for data" Now I hope you will forgive me whoever you are but that is just about the single stupidest comment i have EVER seen, and he did it not once but several times . Comments such as these leave no doubt in my mind as to some users agendas, but also leave me wondering about their intelligence or lack thereof.  Certainly leaves one to wonder. Oh BTW, don't bother looking for this user, I am sure he knows who he is but I have withdawn almost ALL of my Current Contributions. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: September 29, 2008 | | Posts: 8 |
| | Posted: | | | | When I first bought Profiler I was all gung ho about making contributions as I had elsewhere before. I read through the contribution rules and started adding titles to the database that were not there and trying to make corrections to the titles that I own that needed them.
Being unfamiliar still with the contribution system and also coming from somewhere that did things completely different from the way they are done here I was bound to, and did, make a few mistakes. The system being all-or-nothing I could handle. People voting no and adding constructive criticism I could handle. People voting no and being insulting in the comments I was not going to put up with. Nor would I put up with people following up their insulting no votes with insulting PMs. (Yes, that is directed at you Skip.) After a couple of times I just decided to keep any and all corrections local. For a long time I didn't even look at the contributions up for vote.
Coming here I was also looking forward to possibly having a new forum to post on. Then I started lurking before fully jumping in and found the same people acting like asses in the forums and decided to not bother.
Let's get down to the heart of the current matter:
So, were you upset that I did not send you a PM elaborating on my vote? I did not send you a PM along with my no vote because it did not warrant it. They make you add a comment when voting no for a reason. If I had felt that more room was needed to expand on the reasons for my no vote, then I would have sent you a message. A PM as well as my comment would have just been redundant and annoying.
Is the real reason that you got upset because someone with a lower contribution/post count than you who is not named Skip dared defy you and then ended up proving that you were tampering where you maybe should not have been? I think that this is more likely the case. I left your name out of it. You outed yourself with your little tantrum.
If you had not sent me that rude and arrogantly worded message I would not have made an issue of this. And the only reason I bring this to the forum instead of doing it via PM is to point out to the community en masse that this is one of the problems this site faces. People are occasionally going to disagree with you, sport. That's just life. If you cannot handle any kind of criticism then maybe you should not dish it out and end up putting yourself out there to possibly receive it. All you do is drive away a lot of people who are willing to put the time in to help improve the site. I know I am not the only one who feels this way.
P.S. My no votes were not out of any kind of bias against Skip. What he failed to notice or mention is that I voted yes on every other contribution of his that was in the queue. |
| | Registered: September 18, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,650 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tbeishir: Quote:
When I first bought Profiler I was all gung ho about making contributions as I had elsewhere before. I read through the contribution rules and started adding titles to the database that were not there and trying to make corrections to the titles that I own that needed them.
Being unfamiliar still with the contribution system and also coming from somewhere that did things completely different from the way they are done here I was bound to, and did, make a few mistakes. The system being all-or-nothing I could handle. People voting no and adding constructive criticism I could handle. People voting no and being insulting in the comments I was not going to put up with. Nor would I put up with people following up their insulting no votes with insulting PMs. (Yes, that is directed at you Skip.) Like tbeishir I'm still making a few mistakes with regards to updates because I'm still so used to DVDSpot rules a year after it closed and it's somehow merged in my brain with the rules from here.  Thankfully, I've always had a polite PM with no votes and plenty of help from some folk through PM's but some parts of this forum really put me off. It seems one small mistake and some people will just rip you to shreds in a very unhellpful manner (though as I said, not happened to me yet). I have however enjoyed very much different parts of the forum such as the headshots database which is full of great advice and posts and I've made my first two contributions in there (working on a third). | | | | Last edited: by samuelrichardscott |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Theishir:
Yes votes I can't answer to. the ONLY time I see a yes vote is if there is a comment with it, then i have to evaluate the comment, sometimes they are amusing, sometimes they point out a fizx, but if you just vote Yes I am not likely to note it. Why would I.
It is fairly clear to me that you have me muisunderstood, and that is all too common.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Skip:
While I disagree with your decision to stop contributing, it is your decision to do so.
I can not attest to the votes or the comments that I have seen towards your contributions, but I do know that the conversations in the forums get pretty heated. Unfortunately from multiple sides. Sometimes I think that people come to the forums just to irritate people, or to add fuel to the fire.
I have seen some accusatory statements, and vile remarks that were not necessary to any discussion here. You have instigated some of these discussions, others have started arguements just because you arrive to give your opinion. In the groups that are actually involved with these discussions, there are no innocents. Unfortunately, there are bystanders. I do not get involved in a lot of these conversations, and I think (at least I hope) that I add to the conversation when I do get involved.
There are many users out there that will not get involved because of the attitude of multiple people on this site.
This is a user forum, without many users. This is a user built database, without many users contributing. Even within the scope of voters, there are not many users. Now, I know that there must be a lot of users out there that have paid for the program (unless Ken is independently wealthy), that have chosen to not partake of the capabilities of the program. How many here can answer why? If you were a new user, and saw the childish behavior of people here, would you contribute, or participate?
This program has the capability to be more than it is. The reviews on other sites, continuously rate this among the top, and the users have the ability to put this database heads and tails above anything else out there, but it is up to us. Ken can only provide the tools, we have to build it, and the quality will be determined by the way we use those tools. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with you on ALL counts, Charlie.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
This is a user built database, without many users contributing. There may be many different reasons not to contribute. I my case, I was used to contribute each DVD that was not in the database, following the rules, then I had to rebuilt the profile to match my own preferences, that are against rules concerning most of data. At the beginning of the year, Ken wrote that he had never seen a so perfect database than now, with many very good contributors, and he really didn't care if some people do not contribute anymore. With this statement, I didn't see anymore any interest to make twice the job, and I directly build correct profiles (when I say correct means with cast, crew and studios linking, without typos, and with titles that are those we can speak of), but of course I cannot contribute them. As for the votes, I never vote yes or no, because I often agree with changes where I should vote no per the rules and often disagree with those where I should vote yes per the rules. Quoting Ken Cole:Quote:
I do not, however, share the sentiment of doom & gloom that some have indicated. The facts are that our total number of contributions per week continues to rise. Also, the quality of said contributions is higher than at any point in DVD Profiler's history, measured by any objective standard.
BTW, since then, I miss many covers in my online, guess why....  | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
This is a user built database, without many users contributing.
There may be many different reasons not to contribute. I my case, I was used to contribute each DVD that was not in the database, following the rules, then I had to rebuilt the profile to match my own preferences, that are against rules concerning most of data. At the beginning of the year, Ken wrote that he had never seen a so perfect database than now, with many very good contributors, and he really didn't care if some people do not contribute anymore. With this statement, I didn't see anymore any interest to make twice the job, and I directly build correct profiles (when I say correct means with cast, crew and studios linking, without typos, and with titles that are those we can speak of), but of course I cannot contribute them.
As for the votes, I never vote yes or no, because I often agree with changes where I should vote no per the rules and often disagree with those where I should vote yes per the rules.
BTW, since then, I miss many covers in my online, guess why.... Of course you can't surfeur, it is too bad that you don't understand the difference between real DATA and your imaginary data. I am happy to see that you have the data locally the way you want it, this is as it should be. I am sad to see you still on the same rant that has caused so many problems for you, but that is your choice. BUT YOU have what YOU want and I will defend that, I won't defend your imposition of imaginary data on everyone else, myself included. I am not interested in YOUR version of data, nor anyone else's, I deal with REAL data and then modify my local as I feel fit for ME. That is the way you should view uit as well, instead of attempting to impose surfeur's will on everyone else, which is what you continue to complain for. Such a pity. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
I do not, however, share the sentiment of doom & gloom that some have indicated. The facts are that our total number of contributions per week continues to rise. Also, the quality of said contributions is higher than at any point in DVD Profiler's history, measured by any objective standard.
Thanks for the link and the reminder. |
| | Registered: June 21, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,621 |
| | Posted: | | | | Com'on Skip, you can't stop contributing. The database needs you and you need the database, any attept to stay away will be an exercise in futility. If you are quitting again, I'll miss ya. I'll also place the first bet that you'll be back again. Maybe a little more than a year off this time, but you'll be back! |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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