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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Andre(é)as Voutsinas |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
Didn't we had this through? Unfortunately we have this same discussion every time accented names come up. The majority of users at least accept that Ken has ruled on the matter. A few however refuse to play the same way and bring it up time and time again. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting gardibolt: Quote:
Face it, surfeur, this program is primarily intended for use by us dumb Americans, who can't be bothered to learn how things work in other languages. The results aren't "right," but they're easiest to deal with for the vast unwashed and uneducated masses of us. I do not consider Americans as dumb. I admire American culture, and think this great country has many highly educated people. This is all the more sad that this great program has so poor an online database. | | | | Images from movies |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
What you do not understand is that :
ANDRE MARANNE = André Maranne
ANDREAS VOUTSINAS = Andréas Voutsinas
FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT = François Truffaut. You're wrong. We all do understand that. It's just that for DVD Profiler purposes, Ken decided differently. He ruled that ANDRE MARANNE = Andre Maranne, ANDREAS VOUTSINAS = Andreas Voutsinas and FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT = Francois Truffaut. You can keep bringing this up until you're blue in the face, but it really doesn't help. You keep trying to convince us that no such thing as "Francois" or "Andre" exists in the French language, but you really don't have to - I believe you already. I'm not arguing that for a second: you're completely right. In the real world, that is. This, however, is not the real world, but the DVD Profiler universe. And again, for DVD Profiler purposes, Ken decided otherwise. It's as simple as that. There's really no need (nor any kind of purpose) in continously hijacking each and every common name finding thread where some kind of accent is involved. For the rest I refer you to VirusPil's summary on the previous page. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: April 2, 2007 |  Posts: 156 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thank you T!M, you sum it up perfectly. At the same time you indicates (for me, that is) a weakness of the program, which could have been adressed long time ago, technically, in the program, avoiding all these quarrels.
A simple "algorithm" could make (in credits)
eg.
any e, é, è, to an e
any E, É, È, to an E
etc.
UNTIL a better system is implemented. Not perfect, but consistant!
A "better system" could be i.e. an actor database. | | | | Karsten | | | | Last edited: by karstenp |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
What you do not understand is that... What I do not understand is that since YOU KNOW that Andre Maranne is André Maranne, and that Andreas Voutsinas is Andréas Voutsinas, and that Francois Truffaut is François Truffaut, why it is such a huge deal. It's not like you're going to be confused about who these people are when you see their names associated with a DVD. --------------- |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
In the real world, that is. This, however, is not the real world, but the DVD Profiler universe. No, not the DVD profiler universe, just the DVD Profiler online universe. Fortunately, the program can be used locally without propagating invented data. We have here some users that spend much time to build a fiction, a mess of wrong data, totaly useless, and that is what makes me sad, since all their efforts could easily give us a good database.  . But I'll never turn blue about that ...  | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | But you need to understand if it is the data that Invelos is asking for it is not wrong or totally useless. I understand that it is wrong and totally useless TO YOU. But it is the correct data that Invelos does find useful for whatever reason they decided on (Most likely ease of use for members all over the world... as Ken stated he had to balance accurate info with ease of use for all users). | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
What I do not understand is ... why it is such a huge deal. I already explained that here. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 823 |
| | Posted: | | | | surfeur51's arguments are simple and sound. I can't for the life of me understand why people are having a hard time with it. | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote:
surfeur51's arguments are simple and sound. I can't for the life of me understand why people are having a hard time with it. It's because Ken has ruled on it but surfeur doesn't want to accept it. Instead of bringing it up in the relevant area ( Contribution Rules Committee) to propose having it changed, he derails practically every thread about it. Recently someone had to abandon the original thread they started because it got so off topic. As things currently stand, we do a 100% direct swap, letter for letter. If accented in upper, we use accented in lower, if not we don't. |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote:
surfeur51's arguments are simple and sound. I can't for the life of me understand why people are having a hard time with it. The answer to that is simple: because Ken decided differently. That's all. Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Since "é" has a corresponding "É", simple capital conversion is all that's required. If the character used in the all-caps name is "É", convert it to "é" as needed to create mixed case. If the character used in all-caps is "E", convert it to "e" as needed to create mixed case. Edit: I see Forget_the_Rest beat me to it while I was looking for the quote... | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
What I do not understand is ... why it is such a huge deal.
I already explained that here. It's no different than if someone is credited as "Charles" in some films and "Charlie" in others. It doesn't matter which one is "correct". --------------- |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | agree... just use most commonly credited along with credited as to link them. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
It's no different than if someone is credited as "Charles" in some films and "Charlie" in others. It doesn't matter which one is "correct".
Charles exists, Charlie exists. André exists, Andre not (for a French name) Linking problem remains: people say that we can use as credited system, but that means that contributors have detected a linking problem. But the same people argue that it's too complicated for everybody to detect an accent problem. So, for the same name, people are too stupid to detect the accent, but sufficiently intelligent to search the common name with accented variant ???? This is silly and not true : in the CLT, correct name is quite always more often than false one. IMDb mined ??? perhaps. Entered by a native of the country who entered the name correctly, also probably, as it is per the rules. When you enter ANDRE MARANNE = André Maranne, you are per the rules. You are just not per an indication from Ken, hidden somewhere in the forum, two years ago, three days after an indication of Gerri, also hidden in the forum, and saying exactly the contrary. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
It's no different than if someone is credited as "Charles" in some films and "Charlie" in others. It doesn't matter which one is "correct".
Charles exists, Charlie exists.
André exists, Andre not I guess I will have to tell the guy down the street that his name does not exist. I am quite sure he will be surprised to here that.  Quote:
Linking problem remains: people say that we can use as credited system, but that means that contributors have detected a linking problem. But the same people argue that it's too complicated for everybody to detect an accent problem.
So, for the same name, people are too stupid to detect the accent, but sufficiently intelligent to search the common name with accented variant ???? This is silly and not true : in the CLT, correct name is quite always more often than false one. IMDb mined ??? perhaps. Entered by a native of the country who entered the name correctly, also probably, as it is per the rules. When you enter ANDRE MARANNE = André Maranne, you are per the rules. You are just not per an indication from Ken, hidden somewhere in the forum, two years ago, three days after an indication of Gerri, also hidden in the forum, and saying exactly the contrary. Once again, you are reading something into the rules that is not there. Take the rule for non-english titles. It reads, "For non-English titles, use capitalization rules common to the language of the title." The cast rule has no such caveat. It simply reads, "If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead." If it were to say, "If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules common to the actor's language instead," you would have a case, but it doesn't. The rule is ambiguous as to which capitalization rules to use, so Ken clarified it. I know you don't like it, but it is what it is and hijacking threads and claiming people don't understand isn't helping anybody. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I guess I will have to tell the guy down the street that his name does not exist. I am quite sure he will be surprised to here that. You perfectly know that we were speaking of a French actor. If we have an Andre Smith who lives in New York, I've nothing against it. This attack from you explains perfectly why I do not value much your " apologies for the misunderstanding". Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
It simply reads, "If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead." If it were to say, "If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules common to the actor's language instead," you would have a case, but it doesn't. The rule is ambiguous as to which capitalization rules to use, so Ken clarified it. When people contribute, most of them just read the rules, and apply them, not seeing any ambiguity in them. Some contributors may take, for each word of the rules, half an hour to try to find a clarification Ken could have done two years ago, and, in this case, another half an hour to understand why Ken wrote the contrary of what Gerri had stated a few days before. | | | | Images from movies |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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