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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Janus Films on The Criterion Collection - Film distributor or DVD distributor??? |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
There's a reason that Janus Films is not included in the actual film credits, but only in the "leader" before the film actually starts. They are not the theatrical release studio that we're after! I have to disagree with you here. It might not be the studio you are after but, for films released in the US, I am after the studio that released it in the US. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
I take this to mean Theatrical Releasing Studio in the locality of the DVD. For that, for most of the films in The Criterion Collection, Janus Films was the theatrical releasing studio in the US.
Janus had nothing to do with the Theatrical Release of any of The Criterion Collection films. Their only role was in the distribution of the DVDs.
They may be the theatrical release company for other films, but not The Criterion Collection.
You are absolutely wrong on this. I don't know about all the films, but like in the example I gave, they are the theatrical distributor in the US for House. House is also being released as a Criterion Blu-ray on October 26, 2010.
Janus Films Play dates for House
Amazon listing for House They simply distribute the film to theaters. They had nothing to do with the "release" of the film in 1977. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
There's a reason that Janus Films is not included in the actual film credits, but only in the "leader" before the film actually starts. They are not the theatrical release studio that we're after!
I have to disagree with you here. It might not be the studio you are after but, for films released in the US, I am after the studio that released it in the US. So you think every locality should do the same? Good luck finding that information since the local theatrical distributor is often not mentioned anywhere on the disc or cover! It would create an impossible situation trying to guess who they are. I would only include them if they are actually credited somewhere on the media at hand. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
There's a reason that Janus Films is not included in the actual film credits, but only in the "leader" before the film actually starts. They are not the theatrical release studio that we're after!
I have to disagree with you here. It might not be the studio you are after but, for films released in the US, I am after the studio that released it in the US. Why do you care that some company comes along years after a film is released and mails it out to some theaters here. That somehow makes them the "Theatrical Release Studio"? They are the distributor of the DVD, and are therefore, included in the "Media Company" where they belong. Are we really going to start redefining the "Theatrical Release Studio" after all these years?  | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | As usual, the rules aren't much help here... It doesn't even mention localites or what release we're after. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
As usual, the rules aren't much help here... It doesn't even mention localites or what release we're after. Unfortunately, you are correct. For 9 years, it has always been my understanding that we are after the Studio responsible for the original Theatrical Release of the movie. Perhaps an assumption on my part, but I suspect it was the assumption of the vast majority of users. I'm not going to be sucked into this discussion. I will simply make sure I don't download any of this garbage. In my book, Janus Films is the distributor of The Criterion Collection DVDs and therefore, belongs in the Media Company field. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Why do you care that some company comes along years after a film is released and mails it out to some theaters here.
That somehow makes them the "Theatrical Release Studio"?
Then what is the theatrical release studio, if it's not releasing the film to the movie theater? Quote:
They are the distributor of the DVD, and are therefore, included in the "Media Company" where they belong.
On the contrary, I think Janus Films has almost nothing to do with distributing DVDs. They may provide the theatrical print to The Criterion Collection for mastering and encoding, but do not print, package, or distribute DVDs or Blu-rays. So why are you calling them a DVD distributor? | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
What is the proper theatrical releasing studio for US DVD profile of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon? This was a HK/China production, and by your logic, should have EDKO Films as the theatrical releasing studio. My US DVD profile has Sony Pictures Classics as the theatrical releasing studio (top position in the studio credit). Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was an international co-production of four countries: Taiwan, China, Hong Kong and the USA ( source). This makes it fairly ambivalent what this particular film's CoO would be - and hence which theatrical release should be taken. In such cases I would say that the film print that was used for the DVD release in question determines what the theatrical release studio is. In the case of your US DVD release it could well be that a US print with something like "a Sony Pictures Classics presentation" in its opening titles was used. If so, I would say that listing Sony as theatrical release studio is correct. However in cases in which only one print was used for the various DVD releases across localities, the theatrical release studio for that print (presumably originating from its CoO) should be used, rather than having any local theatrical distribution company listed. BTW Sony Pictures Classics didn't just do the US theatrical release, they were also one of the film's production companies. I'm sure you realize that warrants mentioning in the Studios section in itself. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
On the contrary, I think Janus Films has almost nothing to do with distributing DVDs. They may provide the theatrical print to The Criterion Collection for mastering and encoding, but do not print, package, or distribute DVDs or Blu-rays. So why are you calling them a DVD distributor? See my previous quote from Wikipedia. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quote:
From Wikipedia: "Janus has a close relationship with The Criterion Collection regarding the release of its films on DVD, and is still an active theatrical distributor"
I still don't see how this quote makes them a DVD distributor. It may simply mean that The Criterion Collection preferentially releases all Janus Films on DVD. It doesn't, by itself, mean that Janus Films is a DVD distributor. | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
So you think every locality should do the same? Good luck finding that information since the local theatrical distributor is often not mentioned anywhere on the disc or cover! It would create an impossible situation trying to guess who they are. I rarely, if ever, give advice to localities that do not affect me. It is up to the people in those localities to decide how to interpret the rules. Quote:
I would only include them if they are actually credited somewhere on the media at hand. While I don't agree, mainly because older films here in the states, that have had their rights sold to other companies, have had that information stripped from the credits and it is not present on the case. That being said, according to the OP, Janus Films is credited on the film. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Having read the Martian's posts, I'm starting to think that for many films there may well be a difference in the way they are released on DVD in the US versus e.g. Europe. Is it indeed tradition in the US that the prints that are being used for DVD releases (especially when non-US films are involved) are localised US film prints which list the local theatrical release studio in their opening titles?
If that's true, then there is indeed a difference between the US vs. e.g. Europe: over here you hardly ever see the local theatrical release studio listed in the opening titles of the film print that was used for a European DVD release in a particular locality (cf. KinoNiki's post).
If my hypothesis is correct, we might be on to something here. Then it's like different cuts or editions of the same movie. And then I could live with listing the theatrical release studio for the particular film print that was used for the DVD release (also keeping in mind that whenever possible, the disc itself should be used as the primary source for DVDP data).
Of course, the issue of consistency with the Production Year field (which is ALWAYS based on the ORIGINAL theatrical release) still stands.
@xradman:
With regard to Janus, may I once again suggest that Janus might be what the rules call the "Licensor" for the DVD releases by Criterion? If that's true, inclusion in the Media Companies section is well within the rules. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Why do you care that some company comes along years after a film is released and mails it out to some theaters here.
That somehow makes them the "Theatrical Release Studio"? If they 'released' it to theaters here, then they are the theatrical release studio. Quote:
They are the distributor of the DVD, and are therefore, included in the "Media Company" where they belong. According to Wikipedia, Home Vision Entertainment, distributed TCC media from 1986 intil 2005. In 2005, Image Entertainment bought HVE and became the exclusive distributor of Criterion Collection products. If Image Entertainment is the exclusive distributor, how can Janus Films be the distributor as well?  Quote:
Are we really going to start redefining the "Theatrical Release Studio" after all these years? I don't know about you, but I have used the same exact definition since day one...Theatrical Release Studio is the studio that released the film to theaters. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
That being said, according to the OP, Janus Films is credited on the film. The OP does not refer to any specific film. As I recall, Janus Films is credited on the "leader" along with The Criterion Collection on all of the films that I have (and I've viewed several in the last three weeks)....not "on the film" itself. If Janus Films appears as part of the film itself, that would be different. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting KinoNiki:
Quote:
So you think every locality should do the same? Good luck finding that information since the local theatrical distributor is often not mentioned anywhere on the disc or cover! It would create an impossible situation trying to guess who they are.
I rarely, if ever, give advice to localities that do not affect me. It is up to the people in those localities to decide how to interpret the rules. That's not a principle I can get behind. There's too much "interpretation" going on already. Quote:
Quote:
I would only include them if they are actually credited somewhere on the media at hand.
While I don't agree, mainly because older films here in the states, that have had their rights sold to other companies, have had that information stripped from the credits and it is not present on the case.
That being said, according to the OP, Janus Films is credited on the film. Which would earn them a place in media companies, at most. Fortunately, finding the original theatrical release company is usually easier than trying to find out the local distributor decades after the fact. Or even for present movies. This information is not generally available to the public and might be handled by a totally different company than in the US, like Fox releasing a Disney movie or vice versa (just an example). I hate to think what confusion this would create in the profiles if we started to list totally irrelevant companies in the studio field. They have absolutely nothing to do with the DVD media! | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
As I recall, Janus Films is credited on the "leader" along with The Criterion Collection on all of the films that I have (and I've viewed several in the last three weeks)....not "on the film" itself.
If Janus Films appears as part of the film itself, that would be different. Agreed. In the latter case I would list them in the Studios field, in the former case in the Media Companies field. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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