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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Themselves (divider)
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan]
Chesney Allen [Allen]
For those that are tempted to put "Flanagan and Allen" in the credited as field - why? If the credit had been for "Bud Flanagan and Chesney Allen", would you put that in the "credited as" field for both, too? Or would you do the same for any "Written by XX and YY" credit? If not: where's the difference? At which point do you feel two names joined by the word "and" stops becoming two names and suddenly becomes eligable for retaining the entire thing in the "credited as" field?
I have to agree with T!M on this one. Had it been 'Bud Flanagan and Chesney Allen as Themselves', we would have simply split the credit into two entries...without a divider. Agree with T!M and the Martian. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm still undecided on this one. I don't think I would have gone for a divider myself.
I think I'd be tempted to use:
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves
As I see it similar to a group credit like The Rolling Stones as Themselves, or one I had yesterday: Roderick Jayne as Film Editor (crew) where Roderick Jayne is actually the Coen brothers. So I used:
Ethan Coen [Roderick Jayne] - Film Editor
Joel Coen [Roderick Jayne] - Film Editor
Admittedly, these type of credits don't fit well as a single credit or as a group credit, so it's up in the air how we deal with them really. |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting paulb_99: Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen]
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen]
But imho without a group divider.
And than just have Themselves twice? Maybe you are right, when each member has a credit we don't add a divider even when the roles are all the same. You could make a case saying each the have a credit, even though it's shared.
Paul Yes, "as themselves". I'm also not happy with the credited as "Flanagan and Allen", but this would be the "explanation" for the "Themselves" role. I would be also Ok, with the splitted credited as. But I would never ever add a divider for them. If we add a divider in this case, it is just a small step to add dividers for this: X as Soldier Y as Soldier |
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| Registered: September 30, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,805 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting paulb_99: Quote:
However, I think now the way Merrik has described a solution is the best way to go.  Yeah, you read it correctly. I would absolutely use a divider. And I would recommend the same thing. To anyone who thinks we shouldn't use a group divider, I'm confused. It's two cast credits, under a single heading. That's pretty much the definition of a group divider. Just because the names are smushed together beside it instead of underneath it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be put in place. It's still two cast credits with a single character heading. And it's not a crew credit like Roderick Jayne where there's already a nice cushy film editing title carved out for it in the program. I think a group divider of Themselves fits rather well. That's the character credit. Not Flanagan and Allen. Themselves. And in my first post, I said if I were contributing to the online I would credit it Group Divider: Themselves Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen] Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen] because I figured more people would be in favor of that. Now that I see there's support for Group Divider: Themselves Bud Flanagan [Flanagan] Chesney Allen [Allen] I'd totally like to change my asnwer  and say the way I would do it personally, would also be the way I would submit it to the online! | | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I don't think I would have gone for a divider myself.
I think I'd be tempted to use:
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves This is the way I believe I would do it also. I see no need for a divider on this. --------------- |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Merrik: Quote:
...To anyone who thinks we shouldn't use a group divider, I'm confused.
...
It's two cast credits, under a single heading. That's pretty much the definition of a group divider. Just because the names are smushed together beside it instead of underneath it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be put in place. ... I'm just saying, for me it is a difference if the credits are like X as Soldier Y as Soldier or X and Y as Soldiers or Soldiers X Y which is the same as X Soldiers Y But still just an opinion.  Imho just the last option should get a group divider. | | | | Last edited: by VirusPil |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Just had a look in Google what Flanagan and Allen is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanagan_and_AllenWith this information I would strongly recommend to use the credited as with "Flanagan and Allen". I would see this similar as music band credits or something like that. For example Simon & Garfunkel would be a similar credit. Or Eurythmics: Annie Lennox [Eurythmics] David A. Stewart [Eurythmics] (with the assumption of the common name) |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
I don't think I would have gone for a divider myself.
I think I'd be tempted to use:
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves
This is the way I believe I would do it also. I see no need for a divider on this.
--------------- I could actually live with this as well. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
I don't think I would have gone for a divider myself.
I think I'd be tempted to use:
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves
This is the way I believe I would do it also. I see no need for a divider on this.
---------------
I could actually live with this as well. Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen] as Himself Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen] as Himself 1. There is no group divider in the actual credits, so I don't see any justification for adding one. 2. The actual name on screen is 'Flanagan and Allen', therefore it must go in the "credited as" field exactly as it appears, if you are going to use a common name. 3. We routinely convert "plurals" to "singulars" when applying a plural credit to individual credits. It is grammatically incorrect to say 'Bud Flanagan as Themselves'. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
We routinely convert "plurals" to "singulars" when applying a plural credit to individual credits. It is grammatically incorrect to say 'Bud Flanagan as Themselves'. We used to do that, before we were given group dividers and we don't have to any more. You're right that "Bud Flanagan as Themselves" is grammatically incorrect, but if you use Himself then in the profile cast list you will see "Flanagan & Allen.... Himself" so either way we do it we have a grammar error. That's why I prefer to keep what we have on screen: Themselves |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 868 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
We routinely convert "plurals" to "singulars" when applying a plural credit to individual credits. It is grammatically incorrect to say 'Bud Flanagan as Themselves'.
We used to do that, before we were given group dividers and we don't have to any more.
You're right that "Bud Flanagan as Themselves" is grammatically incorrect, but if you use Himself then in the profile cast list you will see "Flanagan & Allen.... Himself" so either way we do it we have a grammar error. That's why I prefer to keep what we have on screen: Themselves I have to agree with Northbloke here. We used to change Soldiers to Soldier, but no with the dividers we add the divider per rules and than we used the plural for this divider. Paul |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 868 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CalebAndCo: Quote:
A group divider for Themselves doesn't make much sense to me. How about:
Flanagan and Allen (Divider)
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan] as Himself
Chesney Allen [Allen] as Himself In my opinion this option dirfts to far away from the actual credit. Now we're actually making up a credit Paul |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
We routinely convert "plurals" to "singulars" when applying a plural credit to individual credits. It is grammatically incorrect to say 'Bud Flanagan as Themselves'.
We used to do that, before we were given group dividers and we don't have to any more.
You're right that "Bud Flanagan as Themselves" is grammatically incorrect, but if you use Himself then in the profile cast list you will see "Flanagan & Allen.... Himself" so either way we do it we have a grammar error. That's why I prefer to keep what we have on screen: Themselves Agree | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen] as Himself
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen] as Himself
1. There is no group divider in the actual credits, so I don't see any justification for adding one.
2. The actual name on screen is 'Flanagan and Allen', therefore it must go in the "credited as" field exactly as it appears, if you are going to use a common name.
3. We routinely convert "plurals" to "singulars" when applying a plural credit to individual credits. It is grammatically incorrect to say 'Bud Flanagan as Themselves'. While that is true, because of the 'credited as' entry, the credit that is visible will be 'Flanagan and Allen as Themselves'. If we do it the way you suggest, it will be 'Flanagan and Allen as Himself'...which is also grammatically incorrect. Edit: I see northbloke had the same idea. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
We routinely convert "plurals" to "singulars" when applying a plural credit to individual credits. It is grammatically incorrect to say 'Bud Flanagan as Themselves'.
We used to do that, before we were given group dividers and we don't have to any more.
You're right that "Bud Flanagan as Themselves" is grammatically incorrect, but if you use Himself then in the profile cast list you will see "Flanagan & Allen.... Himself" so either way we do it we have a grammar error. That's why I prefer to keep what we have on screen: Themselves Well, I don't believe a group divider should be used here since there's none in the actual credits. However, I do agree with TheMadMartian, that since I would use 'Flanagan & Allen' in the "credited as" field, I would want to use "Themselves", as "Flanagan & Allen....Themselves" is what will actually show up in local credits list. | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: October 6, 2008 | | Posts: 1,932 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting paulb_99: Quote:
Quoting CalebAndCo:
Quote:
A group divider for Themselves doesn't make much sense to me. How about:
Flanagan and Allen (Divider)
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan] as Himself
Chesney Allen [Allen] as Himself
In my opinion this option dirfts to far away from the actual credit. Now we're actually making up a credit
Paul Actually, I agree with you. It would be better to have individual credits only, but if a divider was insisted on, having it say "Themselves" is not helpful. |
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