Quoting hal9g:

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Quoting Rico:

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Why it seems that someone broke into this gun lovers house & BANG

Not very amusing! 

Indeed, it's not. I would qualify the video childish and the remark offending.

Quoting Rico:

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Not very amusing!

I agree! It's a graphic depiction of what's been discussed in this thread, should someone break into su casa. Some gun lovers, have real problems after the ultimate act.

Hal thanks for the response, I was beginning to think I was being ignored.

Take Care
Rico

I will assume that you are being a smart a$$ here and understood quite well that my issue was not "problems with the ultimate act", but with the linking of defending one's self and/or family with a gratuitously violent (and fake) video of someone's head being blown off.

Your comment also implies that the perpetrator in the video entered a "gun owner's" home.  How exactly did you come to that conclusion?  If anything, I would suspect that the guy sitting at the computer was the "homeowner" and the other guy the intruder.  Don't know too many burglars that take time to surf the web while robbing a house.

If you choose to not protect yourself or your family against a potential home invasion that's your choice.  I hope you never have to face the consequences of that decision.  Luckily, the odds are in your favor.

No matter how unlikely the possibility, it is still a possibility.  One that I am not willing to ignore and have done all that I can to prepare for including all of the things mentioned above (security system, dogs, gun, etc.).

You also seem to imply in the above post that "gun owners" in general have not contemplated the "ultimate act"and are just "shooting off their mouths" (pun intended) when they say they would shoot an invader.

I cannot speak for others, but I take this extremely seriously.  That is why both my wife and I have been trained in the use of firearms.  It may seem callous to you, but my perspective on this is simply that if you have broken into my house illegally then you have placed yourself at risk  especially knowing that any homeowner is potentially armed.  I will not take the time to find out anything more than that you are an uninvited guest in my home before I use deadly force.  To do otherwise would be potentially fatal to me or a member for my family. 

I have no intention of taking that chance, regardless of the "ultimate act".  I believe that I can live quite easily with the results.

Good Morning Hal,

I hear you & respect your position!

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I will assume that you are being a smart a$$ here and understood quite well that my issue was not "problems with the ultimate act", but with the linking of defending one's self and/or family with a gratuitously violent (and fake) video of someone's head being blown off.

The video was intended to dramatize (make a big splash) to the consequences of the ultimate act, which i feel is often times, given short shrift, in conversation such as these. Whether or not the ultimate act is committed in defense, or for whatever reason, the ultimate act will weigh heavy on some individuals. Hence distinction regarding the ultimate act was ignored.

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Your comment also implies that the perpetrator in the video entered a "gun owner's" home.  How exactly did you come to that conclusion?  If anything, I would suspect that the guy sitting at the computer was the "homeowner" and the other guy the intruder.  Don't know too many burglars that take time to surf the web while robbing a house.

Did not think about it, again it was to dramatize the consequences of the ultimate act, so who's who was not part of the thinking, pertaining to the video. Perhaps the perp. at the computer thought he had the house to himself, & was looking for sensitive info, for future use. Just & after thought & speculation.

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If you choose to not protect yourself or your family against a potential home invasion that's your choice.

Correct! But I assure you that I'm well protected.

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I hope you never have to face the consequences of that decision.

Likewise!

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Luckily, the odds are in your favor.

True! And as society matures, the need for weapons diminishes.

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No matter how unlikely the possibility, it is still a possibility.

True Again! But at what point do we stop taking precautions, for things we can't control. Some folks take this to obsessive levels. It's all about the odds, and stacking them in your favor, tis why Las Vegas exists.

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You also seem to imply in the above post that "gun owners" in general have not contemplated the "ultimate act"and are just "shooting off their mouths" (pun intended) when they say they would shoot an invader.

They most likely have, but living with the consequences, of actually performing the ultimate act, is something you just can't simulate, And can be very burdensome after being committed. Some soldiers have problems after the ultimate act. Invader, war time, or whatever, the verb here is "shoot" police give counseling to policemen who perform the ultimate act, they know the heavy toll 'shooting' can take on the policemen. ETC. Sadly in some cases of individuals who perform the ultimate act, for whatever reason take counseling not from professionals, but in the form of alcohol to deaden those troubling thoughts.

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I cannot speak for others, but I take this extremely seriously.  That is why both my wife and I have been trained in the use of firearms.  It may seem callous to you, but my perspective on this is simply that if you have broken into my house illegally then you have placed yourself at risk  especially knowing that any homeowner is potentially armed.  I will not take the time to find out anything more than that you are an uninvited guest in my home before I use deadly force.  To do otherwise would be potentially fatal to me or a member for my family.

I respect your beliefs here!

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I have no intention of taking that chance, regardless of the "ultimate act".  I believe that I can live quite easily with the results.

So be it!

Take Care Amigo
Rico

Why Do We "Keep and Bear Arms"? by Larry Elder

Not to reopen freshly healed wounds but I think this is an interesting article on this issue and has some interesting data.

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"When a robbery victim does not defend himself," former assistant district attorney and firearms expert David Kopel writes, "the robber succeeds 88 percent of the time, and the victim is injured 25 percent of the time. When a victim resists with a gun, the robbery success rate falls to 30 percent, and the victim injury rate falls to 17 percent. No other response to a robbery -- from drawing a knife to shouting for help to fleeing -- produces such low rates of victim injury and robbery success."

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The Department of Justice's own National Institute of Justice study entitled "Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms" estimates that 1.5 million Americans use guns for defensive purposes every year. Although the government's figure estimates a million fewer people defensively using guns, the NIJ calls their figure "directly comparable" to Kleck's, noting, "It is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error." Furthermore, the NIJ reports that half of their respondents who said they used guns defensively also admitted having done so multiple times a year -- making the number of estimated uses of self-defense with a gun 4.7 million times annually.

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Criminologist and researcher Gary Kleck, using his own commissioned phone surveys and number extrapolation, estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns for defensive purposes each year. One in six of that number, or 400,000, believe someone would have been dead but for their ability to resort to their defensive use of firearms. Kleck points out that if only one-tenth of the people are right about saving a life, the number of people saved annually by guns would still be 40,000.

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A "hot burglary" occurs when the bad guy enters a home knowing it is occupied. The hot burglary rate in the United States is about 10 percent, while the hot burglary rate in the U.K. -- which banned handguns in 1997 -- is around 50 percent.

"Hot Burglary" cases are obviously much more likely to result in injuries and deaths than burglaries.

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Why not ask the real experts -- criminals?

The U.S. Department of Justice's National Institute of Justice surveyed 2,000 felons in state prisons. It asked whether "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime." Seventy-four percent of the felons said yes. The survey also asked these felons whether they had abandoned at least one crime because they feared the intended suspect might be armed. Thirty-nine percent said they abandoned at least one crime; 8 percent had abandoned such a crime "many" times; 34 percent admitted being "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"; and nearly 70 percent knew a "colleague" who had abandoned a crime, been scared off, been shot at, wounded or captured by a victim packing heat.

All of this is evidence that there is a strong basis that the use of guns for self-defense is not a MYTH as others in this thread have suggested. I certainly agree there is room for reasoned debate on the issues and the net impact on society of gun ownership in the US but the evidence is certainly there to support the positives of gun ownership for self-defense.

Well put Srethims. To put a different perspective on what President Jefferson had to say. I am a child of the Cuban Missile Crisis, Havana was 150 miles away and one of the US' largest strategic targets was 30 miles away. The idea that I would live to be as old as I am today was totally alien to me then, I thought for sure i would be a crispy critter long before then. I am also all too painfully aware of what would happen to society in that drastic case and many other similar possibilities. In such a case, those that are not armed will die first, and I intend to survive.

Skip

Interesting questions, rico. And so many people fail to realize just how thin the veneer of civilization is.

Skip

Hi KDH,

Interesting information about the old cowboy days, however it's not relevant to the concept I was speaking about. Also in this modern era, I probably would have shot a couple of vehicles of mine, too put them out of misery.

Skip great point regarding civilizations. Yester year cultures were, less well known to one another, prompting them to be less accepted, because they were not like us. With the advent of instantaneous communication, cultures are more widely known & can be or seem less strange. What we don't know (for good reason) or understand we become defensive & skeptical of. This misunderstanding can lead to violent behavior.

Take Care
Rico

I was working on the UNIVAC I at Maxwell, AFB, Montgomery, AL during the Cuban Missile Crisis,
It was pretty tense and scary.

A little off the subject but I get a little feed up with some people always knocking the USA.
One thing most criminals hsve in common wiith most liberals is that they don't take responsibility for
their plight, it is always someone else's fault.
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When in England, at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building' by George Bush.

He answered by saying, 'Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return.'

You could have heard a pin drop.

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There was a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French and American. During a break, one of the French engineers came back into the room saying 'Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims.. What does he intend to do, bomb them?'

A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly: 'Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck. We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?'

You could have heard a pin drop.

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A U.S. Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included Admirals from the U.S., English, Canadian, Australian and French Navies. At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of Officers that included personnel from most of those countries. Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks but a French admiral suddenly complained that, whereas Europeans learn many languages, Americans learn only English.' He then asked, 'Why is it that we always have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?'

Without hesitating, the American Admiral replied 'Maybe it's because the Brits, Canadians, Aussies and Americans arranged it so you wouldn't have to speak German.'

You could have heard a pin drop.

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AND THIS STORY FITS RIGHT IN WITH THE ABOVE...

Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane. At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry on.

'You have been to France before, monsieur?'  the customs officer asked sarcastically. Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously.

Then you should know enough to have your passport ready. The American said, 'The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it. 

'Impossible. Americans always have to show your passports on arrival in France!

The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained, 'Well, when I came ashore at Omaha Beach on D-Day in 1944 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find a single Frenchmen to show a passport to.

You could have heard a pin drop.

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