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Somebody needs to go to jail...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Mark

Listen to the Audio archive for October 9, 2008, particularly hour 2.  Andrw Willkow discusses aspects of this issue far more eloquently than I can.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
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Who is John Galt?
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Quoting bbursiek:
Quote:
Rico,

I too have seen the email mentioned in Snopes -- I knew it was exaggerated as to the extent and role of the former execs in the Obama campaign from my own reading on the subject. This should come as no surprise to anyone -- as most anonymous emails (especially about politics) circulating the internet are of often limited factual validity.

However I did not base my comment in my post on the exaggerrated email but rather on my understanding of the facts, which as the Snopes analysis acknowledges, did have Raines and Johnson advising/serving the campaign in some capacity. Particularly Johnson, which as Snopes notes, was picked by Obama to be one of 3 people vetting his VP choice -- clearly an important indicator that Johnson was an important advisor/friend/whatever to Obama at that time at least.

I would add that some of the Snopes "facts" are based on denials from the Obama campaign itself which logically would try to minimize the role/contacts these characters had with Obama. Raines role was seemingly more minimal but the history of Fannie donations to Obama over the years (2nd most of any Senator despite only being in the Senate for 4 years) suggests sone contact did exist between Obama and Fannie's disgraced leadership.

Brian


Not to mention the fact that Obama is the second largest benefactor of campaign donations from Fannie Mae.

Sorry, but that added to the fact that these Fannie Mae cronies found some kind of roles (even if very limited) in his campaign just plain stinks!
Hal
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
Quoting bbursiek:
Quote:

I'd be interested in reading the source of that information

Brian


Since you asked, here is one.  I can (and will) go get others if you like.

Quote:

Blaming the CRA

By Alan White

The financial crisis is now being attributed by the Wall Street Journal editors and other right wingers to the Community Reinvestment Act. The CRA requires banks to provide loans and financial services in underserved communities, particularly poor and minority neighborhoods. This blame-the-victim theory does not withstand fact-based analysis.

The blame-the-CRA theory says that the subprime mess was caused by weak-hearted lenders pushed by misguided bureaucrats into making loans to poor people and minorities who can't repay them. Nothing could be further from the truth. First, subprime mortgages that are now defaulting in droves were made mostly by unregulated mortgage bankers with no CRA obligations or oversight. Second, the Alt-A mortgages that are a major part of the crisis were made mostly to middle-and upper-income white borrowers who didn't want to verify income or wanted a bigger loan than a prime lender would offer. Third, loans made by banks to fulfill CRA obligations, even those to very low-income homebuyers, perform quite well. Fourth, the only category of mortgages in which the foreclosure and default rates are not going up is the FHA program, a program that makes loans almost exclusively to low- and moderate-income Americans, many of them African-American and Latino. The bottom line is that it was the design of subprime mortgages, not the selection of borrowers, that caused them to default in massive numbers. Lenders can make sound loans to underserved groups, or they can make overpriced dangerously risky loans.

The only tiny grain of truth in this blame-the-CRA theory is that HUD, under the Bush Administration, agreed to give Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac credit for buying subprime mortgage-backed securities to meet their affordable housing goals. Fannie and Freddie's affordable housing goals are not technically part of the CRA but they are motivated by the same goals. The problem here is not the goal but the means. CRA and consumer advocates consistently opposed counting high-cost, high-risk subprime loans as meeting any bank or GSE's affordable housing goals, but the laissez-faire HUD and OFHEO regulators went along. The same right-wingers now blaming the CRA were praising subprime lending a few years ago as the solution to meet the needs of previously underserved homebuyers. CRA advocates, on the other hand, have never confused subprime lending with community reinvestment.


Sorry, but I see no verifiable sources whatsoever for this article.  It appears to be nothing but Alan White's opinion.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
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Here is some further reading:

- The Housing Meltdown: Why Did It Happen in the United States (BIS Working Papers article, pdf format)
- Prepared Testimony of Michael S. Barr Before the Committee on Financial Services, 2/13/08 (also a pdf)
- The CRA: A Welcome Anomaly in the Foreclosure Crisis The Traiger & Hinckley study that I mentioned in an earlier post (also a pdf)

a quote from the President's Speech, Opening Remarks to the 2008 National Interagency, Community Reinvestment Conference, Janet L. Yellen, President and CEO, Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco

Quote:
Before I turn to potential interventions, I want to make one final point.  There has been a tendency to conflate the current problems in the subprime market with CRA-motivated lending, or with lending to low-income families in general.  I believe it is very important to make a distinction between the two. Most of the loans made by depository institutions examined under the CRA have not been higher-priced loans,16 and studies have shown that the CRA has increased the volume of responsible lending to low- and moderate-income households.


And for a longer article (this one with sources, you should be happy) - click here for article so you can follow the links. 

Quote:
No, Larry, CRA Didn’t Cause the Sub-Prime Mess
Ellen Seidman -
April 15, 2008 - 9:55am

It has lately become fashionable for conservative pundits (Larry Kudlow, George Will) and disgruntled ex-bankers (Vernon Hill, for example, in his March 7 American Banker editorial) to blame the current credit crisis on the Community Reinvestment Act. This is patent nonsense. The sub-prime debacle has many causes, including greed, lack of and ineffective regulation, failures of risk assessment and management, and misplaced optimism. But CRA is not to blame.

First, the timing is all wrong. CRA was enacted in 1977, its companion disclosure statute, the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act (HMDA) in 1975. While many of us warned against bad subprime lending before the turn of the millennium, the massive breakdown of underwriting and extension of risky products far down the income scale-without bothering to even check on income-was primarily a post-2003 phenomenon. To blame a statute enacted in 1977 for something that happened 25 years later takes a fair amount of chutzpah.

It's even more outrageous because of the good CRA clearly did in between. The 1990s were the heyday of CRA enforcement-for a variety of reasons including the raft of mergers and acquisitions that followed the 1994 Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Act, increased scrutiny of lending practices by the media and activism by housing advocacy groups and tougher enforcement by the Clinton Administration.That period saw increased home mortgage lending to lower income households and in lower income communities by the banks and thrifts covered by CRA, and a steady increase in the homeownership rate, especially for lower income and minority families. (See The Joint Center for Housing Studies). In addition, there was significant investment in affordable rental housing, community facilities and broader community economic development, directly by banks and thrifts earning investment credit under CRA or indirectly through bank investment in Community Development Financial Institutions and other community-based organizations.

New research by Ingrid Gould Ellen and Katherine O'Regan of NYUWagner, presented at a conference sponsored by the Philadelphia Federal Reserve Bank, convincingly demonstrates that property values went up dramatically in low and very low income urban census tracts during the 1990s, reversing severe declines during the prior two decades. While Ellen and O'Regan point out that this does not necessarily mean that everyone in those communities benefited, relating the improvement in home values in distressed communities to the effects of a statute designed to increase access to mortgage credit in those communities, during a period when the statute was vigorously enforced, is a reasonable connection.

Second, CRA does not either encourage or condone bad lending. Bank regulators were decrying bad subprime lending before the turn of the millennium (see Interagency Guidance on Subprime Lending), and warning the CRA-covered institutions we regulated that badly underwritten subprime products that ignored consumer protections were not acceptable. Lenders not subject to CRA did not receive similar warnings.And we also explained to those we regulated how to serve lower income communities and borrowers in a manner that was good for the borrower, good for the bank, and earned CRA credit.

For example, in October 2000, when I spoke to the National Association of Affordable Housing Lenders, a group of CRA-covered lenders, I said, "key to successful community reinvestment activity is being a responsible lender. Being responsible means making loans on responsible terms to people who can afford to pay them back, and making certain borrowers both understand the terms of the loan and have the opportunity to get the best terms available given their credit and financial position. But it also means expanding both the market for and affordability of loan products. It means working with customers to make them more bankable, helping families find the loan that is right for them, and investing in their success and yours by supporting organizations that assist you by counseling these individuals on the front and the back end of a loan."

CRA enforcement became a lower priority for bank regulators after 2001. My successor at the Office of Thrift Supervision, in fact, led an effort-eventually thwarted-to unilaterally loosen CRA regulations for institutions with more than $1 billion in assets. See 70 Fed. Reg. 10023. Nevertheless, CRA regulations were eased more generally in 2005. See 70 Fed. Reg. 44256.

The years that coincided with reduced CRA enforcement are also the years when CRA-covered entities wandered deeper into "higher priced loans," a category that includes, but is not limited to, "exploding ARMs" and other particularly pernicious kinds of loans. Thanks to the valiant efforts of late Fed Governor Ned Gramlich, starting in 2004 we have data about "higher priced loans." In that year, bank, thrifts and their subsidiaries-the entities covered by CRA-made about 37% of high cost loans. By 2006, the bank, thrift and subsidiary percentage was up to 40.9%. That a lack of interest in CRA enforcement coincided with CRA-covered entities getting into higher priced lending does not seem to me an argument for less CRA enforcement. Rather, it's an argument for better enforcement of a statute that, when well enforced, had proven its worth in helping both borrowers and communities.

Finally, it is nevertheless the case that CRA-covered lenders are not the source of the problem. One of CRA's major failings, in fact, is that it only applies to banks and thrifts. Remember all the investment banks who demanded product and then sliced and diced loans until it was impossible to understand their quality?They're not covered. Neither are the independent mortgage banks, the kinds of firms that have gone bankrupt or nearly so because of their abysmal lending practices, who regularly made about 50% of the high cost loans. Bank affiliates, another uncovered group, made about 12% of the high cost loans.

Janet Yellin, President and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco recently made this point, saying "Most of the loans made by depository institutions examined under the CRA have not been higher-priced loans, and studies have shown that the CRA has increased the volume of responsible lending to low- and moderate-income households." And a recent study by Traiger & Hinckley LLP (See also the addendum).

CRA is not perfect. It doesn't cover a substantial portion of the financial services landscape. It has become complex, and the primary focus is on numbers of loans, with less attention to the quality of those loans. Asset-building depository and other services are given short shrift. And banks and thrifts have been allowed to "count" loans made by affiliates that are not subject to effective regulatory scrutiny. Governor Gramlich was right when he said that these entities-like the independent mortgage bankers-should be subject to far greater regulatory scrutiny, for many reasons. Certainly banks should not be allowed to count loans made by these affiliates for CRA purposes without such scrutiny.

But these are not reasons to repeal CRA or blame it for a mess caused primarily by those not subject to its reach during a period when even those under its umbrella were not encouraged to take it seriously. Rather, our challenge is to respond to the ongoing credit crisis in part by modernizing CRA, expanding its reach and making it even more effective than it was in the 1990s.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
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Danae,

Again Seidman's piece does not address the argument made by Kurtz which links the CRA to ACORN and the subsequent deregulation of Fannie and Freddie. As I stated with respect to the earlier piece by White -- Seidman has the desire to argue about something that isn't really being argued by the other side -- namely that the CRA all by itself caused this mess.

The CRA (well intentioned to be sure) inadvertently led to the crisis by providing the basis for ACORN's activities and their ultimately successful lobbying efforts to reduce restrictions on Fannie and Freddie. The loosening of restrictions at Fannie and Freddie was also motivated by good intentions - to make more lending to the poor possible. It unitentionally led to a lot of other bad loans being made to many people.

The end of her article is more thoughtful about the CRA but she still doesn't at any point address the ACORN efforts to deregulate Fannie and Freddie in the mid-90's an effort that grew from the CRA.

I will comment on the other articles if and when I have the time - the comments of Seidman's piece have a well thought rebuttal to her:

Quote:

Submitted by Mike K (not verified) on October 1, 2008 - 2:03am.
Scroll down to the graph named "Primed for Disaster" and look what happens in the mid-90's. It was used in reference of bank deregulation, but it is very pertinent here because sub-prime lending began before the 1999 bank deregulation. Almost nobody gave sub-prime loans until shortly after Clinton's regulatory changes. You quote 65% for 1993, but 65% of nothing is still nothing. You'll notice too that the largest spikes percentage-wise were not after Bush announced the loosening of regulatory requirements in 2004 or Gramm's inclusion of protections in the 1999 deregulation which took effect in 2000. In fact the sub-prime lending rate leveled off or went down with the protections. It's not like somebody just thought of the sub-prime idea in the mid-90's. It had been around for centuries. Nobody did it though, because nobody was effectively forced to until the mid-90's.

You (as well as Traiger Law) also seem to completely ignore the fact that while CRA-covered institutions were not making (originating) a high percentage of these loans by the late 2000's, they are effectively buying them from non-CRA-covered mortgage companies (or community groups like Acorn) to satisfy their requirement for CRA credits. This creates a market for the non-CRA-covered companies to sell sub-primes to the covered institutions and encourages more sub-prime loan origination. This is noted in Section II Sub-section B of the following: The idea that requiring lending institutions to lend responsibly, but they had better lend or else is like telling your 15 year old boy to go mow the lawn, but you had better not get dirty. It's a fallacious paradigm.

You also seem to completely downplay the regulatory changes in support of the CRA that allowed the securitization of loans. Institutions like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were directed by the Clinton administration to hold more and more loans with less requirement for capital reserves to back them up. As we all know, Fannie and Freddie were among the first to hit the bricks and they bought and owned much of the CRA debt.

I know you didn't address this, but the authors use of the Fed study on profitability, a nearly 10 year old study (using 1999 data) that was compiled barely after sub-primes really hit the market, much less had a chance to default, is questionable if not completely irrelevant in 2008. There had been no upward adjustment of interest rates, no time for bubble creating or bursting, nothing like that. I suspect that the same study done today would have vastly different results.

The article also fails to realize that many of these sub-prime loans were not just ARMS, but 5 to 10-year interest only loans. This type of loan was introduced in 2000 and by 2005 were close to 30% of the market. These loans would have started to mature to interest+ loans, let's see...right about a year or two ago. I've seen many say that the timing is off since the CRA took effect over 30 years ago. These people almost invariably gloss over the regulatory changes made in the 90's. Those changes are the crux of the matter.

Now, having said that, I think the CRA was noble and well-intentioned and does have a place in today's society. Not in it's current form though. It has to focus on incrementally building credit for those it serves to the point where they have sufficient credit worthiness to make large loans (like home loans) a viable option (in the prime market). After all of the sub-prime lending it has spawned and the pending financial catastrophe that it is causing the economy as a whole, it still has only raised black home ownership from 42% in 1970 to 47.2% more than 37 years later. Of course in 2009 and 2010 that might be lower due to all of the bad mortgages, foreclosures, and bankruptcies that are on the books. Due to the injection of stricter requirements by the Clinton administration and refusal of Congress in 2003 and 2005 to supervise Fannie and Freddie in more stringent fashion, the CRA is now hurting the people it was supposed to protect.

The 1970's CRA did not cause this. The 1990's CRA, while not responsible for the whole mess, is definitely a large part and the core of it.
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Don't forget immediatley after 911, George Bush encouraged people to go the Malls, spend money take each day as it comes. Enjoy Life spend spend.. spend. So lenders were trying to encourage the economy by having everyone out working to produce the goods we were to buy. The more we bought the more was spent, the more goods and services Americans produced .
If you got in over your head,, take out another loan, Pay the old loan off on the new credit card..

In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.

Terry
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Quoting AESP_pres:
Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
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Withdraw the bailout funds, seize the company, sell off it's assets and jail it's top executives .

Agree with you there. They obviously doesn't the money that all the US citizens had given to them    Those corporate guys just laught at everybody, they have created the crisis and now that the US governement had started to clean their mess maybe it's time to hit where the problem really is.


I agree that they should be prosecuted for their negligence, but they didn't create the problem, they just took advantage of the situation they found themselves in.  The real culprits are the Democrats like Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and the rest (and a few Republicans as well) who let the banks make loans to unqualified buyers, and then strong-armed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into buying up those bad loans to the tune of 11 Billion dollars.  They also prevented attempts to remedy the situation in 2001, 2003, and again in 2005.  The bottom had to drop out sooner or later, and it started in late 2006 when people began defaulting on those loans they couldn't pay off.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
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Quoting widescreenforever:
Quote:
Don't forget immediatley after 911, George Bush encouraged people to go the Malls, spend money take each day as it comes. Enjoy Life spend spend.. spend. So lenders were trying to encourage the economy by having everyone out working to produce the goods we were to buy. The more we bought the more was spent, the more goods and services Americans produced .
If you got in over your head,, take out another loan, Pay the old loan off on the new credit card..




Don't forget the circumstances that took place in.  The way you get out of a recession is to spend money to get the economy moving again, both at the personal level and the state and federal as well.  Bush was also referring to the need to get back to a normal day to day life and not give in to the fear and panic created by 9/11.  He was NOT encouraging people to go out and max out their creadit cards.  Also don't forget that Bush tried to push legislation through Congress to reregulate the mortgage banks and got shot down in short order by the House Democrats -- mainly Barney Frank.
John

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Quoting mdnitoil:
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Ahh, another Stanley Kurtz special.


That's pretty close to the way it happened from I've been able to find out, and my mother's broker (part of the Wachovia system) told me nearly the same thing a few days ago when I asked him how he thought it all fell apart.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
Funny how the article doesn't mention that in demanding enforcement of the CRA they are only demanding that banks abide by US federal law, that housing advocacy groups including ACORN objected to subprime lending practices as predatory, and that these groups have been warning of the dangers of subprime lending since the early 90s.

The problem isn't that banks were pressured to loan to low-income people, or that people of low-income deserve the right to buy a home.  People of low income do deserve the right to own property rather than throwing money away on rentals.  The problem is that people have a dream home in their mind, and that these predatory lenders steered these people toward getting more home than they could afford./blockquote]

ACORN is in fact, the cause of a very large part of this whole mess.  Don't forget that they've been feeding at the government trough for 30 years.  Perhaps you've heard of the voting fraud controversy that is rapidly spreading across the whole country?  100% due to ACORN, and they are repeating a pattern that has occurred every election cycle since they went into business.  They worked with people like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, among others, to push these sub-prime loans to low income blacks and other minority groups, knowing full well that most of them would default, and covered their butts by coercing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into covering all that bad paper.  Also, don't forget that Obama was an ACORN lawyer in his early career in Chicago, and that his "community organizing" was in reality supervising ACORN workers doing their dirty work.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
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Quoting bbursiek:
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Prominent Democrats blocked efforts from Bush, McCain, and others to rein in Freddie and Fannie in the last few years but no one is focusing on that prefering to rail against the wall street types who were at the end of the gravy train here -- not the beginning.

Brian


If Bush was so interested in reining in Fannie & Freddie, why is it that his administration is the one that allowed the Housing and Urban Development and Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight to allow F&F to fulfill their affordable housing goals (not technically part of the CRA but often lumped with it) by buying subprime mortgage-backed securities?  It seems that if his administration was interested in reining in problems with F&F then they would not have deregulated this, and would have forced F&F to meet these goals in more traditional fashion.


Who has been running Congress for the last 5 years?  Tweren't Bush and his boys.  Just about every time the WH and the Republicans tried to do anything constructive, Reid and Pelosi lined up in lockstep to prevent it.  Bush has tried several times since the initial attempt in 2001 to correct problems at F&F, and has been shot down every time by the Democrats and a few turncoat Republicans.  We haven't even heard about a lot of the stuff because the media is in cahoots with the left in reworking our social structure.  They simply don't report anything that goes against that agenda.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
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Quoting widescreenforever:
Quote:
Don't forget immediatley after 911, George Bush encouraged people to go the Malls, spend money take each day as it comes. Enjoy Life spend spend.. spend. So lenders were trying to encourage the economy by having everyone out working to produce the goods we were to buy. The more we bought the more was spent, the more goods and services Americans produced .
If you got in over your head,, take out another loan, Pay the old loan off on the new credit card..



Give me a break.

Bush is responsible because he encouraged people after 9/11 to go about their lives normally and not let this terrorist attack change America?

You Bush haters are just unbelievable!
Hal
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Quoting Rifter:
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Who has been running Congress for the last 5 years?  Tweren't Bush and his boys.  Just about every time the WH and the Republicans tried to do anything constructive, Reid and Pelosi lined up in lockstep to prevent it.  Bush has tried several times since the initial attempt in 2001 to correct problems at F&F, and has been shot down every time by the Democrats and a few turncoat Republicans.  We haven't even heard about a lot of the stuff because the media is in cahoots with the left in reworking our social structure.  They simply don't report anything that goes against that agenda.


Democrats didn't take congress until 2006.
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Hi Guys,

Let's all line up now, either were left or right. I'm sure we can argue about who got first mention in the previous sentence. Blame blame blame. It's time to note both parties made errors, let's learn from the mistakes & move forward.

Take Care
Rico
If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz
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Quoting Rico:
Quote:
Hi Guys,

Let's all line up now, either were left or right. I'm sure we can argue about who got first mention in the previous sentence. Blame blame blame. It's time to note both parties made errors, let's learn from the mistakes & move forward.

Take Care
Rico


We're not all right or left.  I'm one step forward, 2 steps back myself. 

I think the South Park episode about voting pretty much sums it up for me.  Both choice will always suck and neither side represents my values.  I like a few of the ideas that each has and loathe a whole lot more.

So I'll toss blame equally and whichever side wins I'll have something to complain about.  Unfortuntely.
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Hi Guys,

Quote:
Snark wrote:
I like a few of the ideas that each has and loathe a whole lot more.


Give that man a cigar er gold arrow


See: Here

Take Care
Rico
If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz
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