Quoting RHo:

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Quoting Forget_the_Rest:

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The way I see it is that bad data is bad data is bad data & should be kept out at all costs.

Since cloning credits is not the only possible source of bad data and because we are all human and prone to errors, the only way to keep bad data out of the database at all cost, would be to remove all data.

It always depends on the cost-value ratio.

To keep out the bad data we use the voting system. Of course errors will always happen & get in. Sometimes from initial contributions where no one votes, some times from profiles that no one has voted on, sometimes again due to human error. However to not even bother checking at all if the data you're copying is accurate is just asking for trouble.

Rho:

I will be happy to explain to one and all  that when I started to design the Rules I tried very hard with DanW to keep that cost-benefit as close to neutral as humanly possible, because I do understand the premise. But when users start whining about their cost-benefit versus the cost-benefit of another user then we are not in neutral territory are we.

Such as I am lazy I don't want to spend two hours building a Profile and i don't care if the data is correct or accurate or even if it conforms to the Rules, Ken has made statements which allow me to be lazy, then his garbage negatively impacts users who genuinely working for the benefit of the Community and trying to build an accurate database as defined by the Rules and the ACTUAL data that is needed.

Skip

Quoting Unicus69:

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And this is where the problem is.  What is best for the db and the users is highly subjective and is the primary reason we have rules.  What you think is good for thedb, may not be what someone else thinks is good for the db.  What is good for you, may not be good for someone else.

It is unfortunate that the invelos screeners do not enforce the rules.  If that is going to be the SOP, why have rules at all? 

...and i think that is the million dollar question, what is the good for the DB? In my opinion its a compromise, always. When we are talking about users having no cast/crew and users getting false results from CLT. Then which do you think serves the community more; The possibilty that a profile is wrong (which were not talking about adding to the database) and thus giving false results on the CLT or the reality that there are no credits?

I'm not saying we should abandon the rules ...and i'm not saying i'm braking the rules. I honestly believe i am following the rules.

Quoting whispering:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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And this is where the problem is.  What is best for the db and the users is highly subjective and is the primary reason we have rules.  What you think is good for thedb, may not be what someone else thinks is good for the db.  What is good for you, may not be good for someone else.

It is unfortunate that the invelos screeners do not enforce the rules.  If that is going to be the SOP, why have rules at all? 

...and i think that is the million dollar question, what is the good for the DB? In my opinion its a compromise, always. When we are talking about users having no cast/crew and users getting false results from CLT. Then which do you think serves the community more; The possibilty that a profile is wrong (which were not talking about adding to the database) and thus giving false results on the CLT or the reality that there are no credits?

I'm not saying we should abandon the rules ...and i'm not saying i'm braking the rules. I honestly believe i am following the rules.

You may not say you are breaking the Rules...but I will. And no your approach is totally unacceptable, for you to clone data without verifying it, you are in essence putting your time above those users, myself included, who do take the ACTUAL effort of building profiles and making sure that they conform to the rules, I don't need the data of such users or even want to see it approved EVER. It takes far less time to verify that the cloned data is correct than it does to build a Profile from scartch. But your comments are all completely self-serving and not in the interest of the Community. Sorry, whispering, that is the way i see it and I will say that unwaveringly and consistently.

Skip

After reading these same "conversations" over and over and over again, it just makes me more convinced that THE most important thing for this software, would be separate profiles for the Film content and DVD content.

Then there would be only one "master" profile which all users would vote/audit, no matter which locality of DVD they have. At the moment we just have bad database design.

Design should contain parallel profiles, master and local for Cast & Crew. User should be able to define if one would like to use only master or local or combination of both, where local would be appended to master.

Examples:

1. Cast & Crew on DVD matches with master profile = use only master

2. Cast & Crew on DVD doesn't match with master profile = use only local (I think Blade Runner have at least two different end credits)

3. Cast & Crew matches with master, but has more credits = user local appended to master (for example animations which also have local voice actors credited after original voices).

Primary key for master profile should be combination of Original Title, Production Year and Director. We could use present Cast & Crew fields for local Cast & Crew and Ken could add a new set of fields for master.

I really hope we would see this at least on ver. 4.0 since it would rise the accuracy and useability of this db to a whole new level. Same time it would end these endless debates on forums.

CLT should only be effected by master profile contributions.

By local I don't mean local as we understand it now, I mean Cast & Crew that is tied to certain UPC. That data should also be contributable.

Although I would love to see a safe way of linking cast/crew profiles together, I think the way that you're suggesting would complicate matters for people -

Do it this way if you have this release.
Do it that way if you have that release.
Do it another way if you have another release.

We have enough trouble agreeing on the system as it currently is. I think adding in more variables would be a headache.

Quoting Kulju:

Quote:
After reading these same "conversations" over and over and over again, it just makes me more convinced that THE most important thing for this software, would be separate profiles for the Film content and DVD content.

Then there would be only one "master" profile which all users would vote/audit, no matter which locality of DVD they have. At the moment we just have bad database design.

Design should contain parallel profiles, master and local for Cast & Crew. User should be able to define if one would like to use only master or local or combination of both, where local would be appended to master.

Examples:

1. Cast & Crew on DVD matches with master profile = use only master

2. Cast & Crew on DVD doesn't match with master profile = use only local (I think Blade Runner have at least two different end credits)

3. Cast & Crew matches with master, but has more credits = user local appended to master (for example animations which also have local voice actors credited after original voices).

Primary key for master profile should be combination of Original Title, Production Year and Director. We could use present Cast & Crew fields for local Cast & Crew and Ken could add a new set of fields for master.

I really hope we would see this at least on ver. 4.0 since it would rise the accuracy and useability of this db to a whole new level. Same time it would end these endless debates on forums.

CLT should only be effected by master profile contributions.

By local I don't mean local as we understand it now, I mean Cast & Crew that is tied to certain UPC. That data should also be contributable.

Couldnt agree more.

verifying the accuracy. If we are cloning another profile we need to verify the data against our own disc to make sure everything is correct before we contribute. The rules even state that we need to verify all data before contributing and reading the contribution notes of the cloned profile is not verifying anything. If we continue to clone profiles without verifying the info against our own disc, than we are allowing the possibility of adding more corrupted data to the system. This kind of action will not help the CLT but only make it worse.