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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What does Invelos want? |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,678 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
With a library of DVDs up well past 1,000 something like this is a possibility.
Really? You would base a purchase decision based on incorrect linkage? You wouldn't search for the title? Quote:
I always wanted the information in Profiler to be accurate to the actual DVD release. that is why I like cast and crew to be per the credits... why I like to see a typo in the overview if there is one on the back cover... and why I like to see Bold and Italics in the overview if there is bold and Italics on the case. In a collection program I like accuracy to the source material... and in our case that source material is the DVD itself. That would be accuracy for its own sake, then. Ok, I accept that, as long as we agree that it has no real practical implication. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
With a library of DVDs up well past 1,000 something like this is a possibility.
Really? You would base a purchase decision based on incorrect linkage? You wouldn't search for the title? What I am saying is that if it does not come up when I click on a person's name... then while at the store if I see a title with a person I collect that I don't remember seeing in that field... yes I could purchase it a second time. I am one of the many that does not have any type of PDA to have the mobile version of profiler... so I can't check it when I am out shopping. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 171 |
| | Posted: | | | | I fall mostly into group 2. I would like the most accurate data, but I'm more concerned with the ability to use the data. The ability to cross link actors between their various films and to easily search are important to me. I do not have the time to do detailed audits of all of my titles and depend on the generosity of this community to update this information, so I may also fall partially into group 1.
I would love to hear from Invelos what their goals and intentions are. The contribution rules are there, but they don't address intentions, just the framework for capturing the data.
You can look at it like this... It's like following the directions you are getting from a GPS. Even if you follow the directions flawlessly, you won't get to where you planned if the destination is wrong. And anybody who has used a GPS knows that even if the destination is correct, it can sometimes lead you through some very dangerous territory on your path to that destination. Sometimes you need to make an exception and avoid an area you know is a problem and then let the GPS bring you back another way.
To bring this back to Profiler... By knowing the intended goal, we can see where a new situation comes up that was not considered in the creation of the rules. This will allow us to quickly arrive at a solution that allows this new situation to be handled in the correct way. And, the best thing... it might avoid some of the arguments we have around here! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Forget_the_Rest: Quote:
I swing somewhere between 2 & 3. While "Some data is better than no data" is right, "Some inaccurate data is better than no data" is not. I would rather have incomplete profiles than complete profiles that have inaccurate info. I am 2 pages late, but I agree with this as well. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Jgilligan:
The Rules were not developed in a vacuum, I can offer guidance as to intent, while Ken assisted in many aspects of the development process, the "baby" as it were was a direct result of the work of two users who built the framework, and then a team of writers who put flesh on the bones. Unfortunately far too many users do not want to listen to guidance, but instead want to argue and/or create their own interpretations, which are generally wrong. Everybody wants Ken and Gerri to be more involved in the Forums and offer their input and i am fine wih that, but frankly I don't think it is necessary nor desirable as such involvement detracts from development of the Program and personally that is where i want Ken to be concentrating his efforts.
The Rules were designed to be easy to understand and follow, and I believe to this day that generally this is true, especially if we all keep in mind that the central theme is REAL DATA, NOT user interpreted data or user-preferred data.
I will continue to offer advice as to what something should be, when I can, I do not understannd why that should be a target fro the insults I receive on a daily basis. As I have said many times, jgilligan, were the shoe on your foot instead of mine I would not be insulting and sometimes outright slandering you for what you did in the Rules, I would be trying to understand and complying with what you had done and supporting the rules 100%, not just when it suits me as some do.
The choice as always is yours.
The databsae, for those that are familiar with the bad old days, is thousands of times better than it was, and can be better stuii, and this will ALWAYS be true.
As to your comment relative to linking. I understand you and agree, but it comes down ultimately to a local issue more than an Online issue. What the online does for us in linking, is it gives us the ability to share data on linked names, not much more. But that data is of little value under a system which is based totally on user input to determine a correct piece of data, which is why I continue to believe that a simple association system is the best system, even though a simple association system would not alleviate the absolute necessity to verify that NameA=NameB=NameC, we would no longer have to worry about the CLT and the users could use the shared data in any way they choose.
I will continue in my efforts to raise all boats and not lower the river.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
While I understand what James is saying above... Ken also made the statement that such a small thing wrong/against the rules is a legitimate reason for voting no as well. So personally I always vote no with reason for anything that is against the rules, incorrect or against statements made by Ken and/or Gerri... knowing full well that it could still go through... but it will highlight for the submitter and the screener that there is something wrong no matter how small it is.
Then it is...
1. Up to the submitter if they want to fix the problem or take the chance that the contribution could get declined.
2. Up to the screener if what I point out is reason enough to decline it or if they want to let it go through anyway. I agree with this line of thinking. Quote:
I always wanted the information in Profiler to be accurate to the actual DVD release. that is why I like cast and crew to be per the credits... why I like to see a typo in the overview if there is one on the back cover... and why I like to see Bold and Italics in the overview if there is bold and Italics on the case. In a collection program I like accuracy to the source material... and in our case that source material is the DVD itself. This as well. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | I would fall into Group 2 with a tendency yowards Group 3. I think that you will find that a lot of these issues are somewhat personality based. A tool that I have used in the workplace to help understand where others are coming from is the True Colours test. I think that it would be an interesting exercise for people to take this test and post the results. It might help each of us understand the others point of view. The test can be taken here. A legend explaining the results is available here. My results: Green 15 Gold 9 Orange 7 Blue 5 I am betting that there are a lot of high Gold people in Group 3. | | | | Last edited: by Telecine |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Telecine: Quote:
A tool that I have used in the workplace to help understand where others are coming from is the True Colours test. I think that it would be an interesting exercise for people to take this test and post the results. It might help each of us understand the others point of view.
The test can be taken here.
A legend explaining the results is available here.
My results:
Green 15
Gold 9
Orange 7
Blue 5
I am betting that there are a lot of high Gold people in Group 3. Mine: Blue 16 Orange 12 Green 7 Gold 1 | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
It would be interesting to know if those who lean towards group 3 have pondered why "good data" is so important to them. Is it just the principle of it all, or do you actually find that it has a practical impact of some sort? I agee with Addicted about being accurate to the DVD release. But I also don't like making repetitive changes -- which happens when you let people "correct" the typos on the cover. Sometimes the correction isn't so correct. At least when the overview matches the cover "warts (misspelllings) and all" there can be no argument about which it should be. It is what you see -- and if it is spelled "teh" (instead of "the") on the cover, it is the same on my copy as yours. BTW: I'm not sure the rules address the JCVD issue (name-parsing) and I'm also not sure all group 3 people share the same ideas about how names SHOULD be parsed. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
The goal of what you refer to as "comprehensive notes" (which I understand your shorthand to refer to things like: listing all crew roles in the notes ... While I can't speak for Skip, I don't think his concept of comprehensive notes requires listing of ALL crew roles -- just those where the role isn't the exact wording of the dropdown | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Telecine: Quote:
I would fall into Group 2 with a tendency yowards Group 3. I think that you will find that a lot of these issues are somewhat personality based.
A tool that I have used in the workplace to help understand where others are coming from is the True Colours test. I think that it would be an interesting exercise for people to take this test and post the results. It might help each of us understand the others point of view.
The test can be taken here.
A legend explaining the results is available here.
My results:
Green 15
Gold 9
Orange 7
Blue 5
I am betting that there are a lot of high Gold people in Group 3. Mine: Gold: 14 Green: 10 Orange: 6 Blue: 6 | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Telecine: Quote:
I would fall into Group 2 with a tendency yowards Group 3. I think that you will find that a lot of these issues are somewhat personality based.
A tool that I have used in the workplace to help understand where others are coming from is the True Colours test. I think that it would be an interesting exercise for people to take this test and post the results. It might help each of us understand the others point of view.
The test can be taken here.
A legend explaining the results is available here.
My results:
Green 15
Gold 9
Orange 7
Blue 5
I am betting that there are a lot of high Gold people in Group 3. Interesting test. Blue 13 Green 12 Gold 9 Orange 3 Looking at the other link, I would agree with having Blue on top for me. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Telecine: Quote:
I would fall into Group 2 with a tendency yowards Group 3. I think that you will find that a lot of these issues are somewhat personality based.
A tool that I have used in the workplace to help understand where others are coming from is the True Colours test. I think that it would be an interesting exercise for people to take this test and post the results. It might help each of us understand the others point of view.
The test can be taken here.
A legend explaining the results is available here.
My results:
Green 15
Gold 9
Orange 7
Blue 5
I am betting that there are a lot of high Gold people in Group 3. Mine are... 16 Gold 10 Blue 6 Green 4 Orange | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
The goal of what you refer to as "comprehensive notes" (which I understand your shorthand to refer to things like: listing all crew roles in the notes ...
While I can't speak for Skip, I don't think his concept of comprehensive notes requires listing of ALL crew roles -- just those where the role isn't the exact wording of the dropdown That could be. He does ask for "actual crew roles" in his voting comments on my contributions whenever I add 3.5 crew roles though. Invelos does not require that actual crew roles have to be listed in the contribution notes. To whatever extent he wants that, it exceeds their requirements. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 736 |
| | Posted: | | | | What does Invelos want? All three. They are a business. They want every subscriber they can find.
What does Invelos need? They need #1 to pay the bills, #2 to keep things running and up-to-date, and #3 to lighten up and remember this is a hobby.
I have no problem with #1. Most people just want to keep track of their DVDs and don't want to put in the effort themselves (or don't have the time to do so).
I find myself more in the 2nd category than the 3rd. I want to make sure that every profile has as much data as possible, within the rules, but won't kill myself to completely audit them (I'd never be able to watch a DVD if I did). I try to enter everything except cast and crew on my first pass. I am willing to cut corners (such as cloning profiles from another region to find cast and crew for TV series that would be too time-consuming) as long as they fall within the rules. If someone has contributed full cast and crew for a TV series that had none, I won't vote No because they also contributed a studio that has Inc. after it. I might PM a correction, but I know that the data can fixed once it is the on-line database.
The problem that #3 people will never get is that if everyone is held to their standards, this program would grind to a halt. Most of the users would stick to their local databases and only a handful of popular titles would get updated. Even more confusing is that a lot of the #3 people don't even contribute on a regular basis, so they are asking people to conform to a standard that they are not willing to share with the rest of the users.
We need more users to contribute, not less. By raising the bar so high, all that happens is that a lot of people hit their heads on that bar and wander back out the door in a daze, never to return. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,678 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think Telecine may be on to something. This is probably a personality thing. My apartment isn't spotless. It's "clean enough" and "organized enough". But it'll never be a contender for an article in Better Homes and Gardens. I don't polish my car every week. In fact, not every month. It's just a means of transportation, nothing more. So maybe it's not so surprising that when it comes to DVD Profiler, I'm more interested in if can do the basic functions that I expect of it, rather than if it contains a perfect data collection. Oh, also not too surprising, my main color is Blue in the test Telecine referred to. My only "unblue" trait is that I don't dislike sarcasm. I can be quite sarcastic at times. I think some people here would agree,,,  | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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