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Could "supervising producer" be credited as producer.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
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Have you nothing better to do? 

Have you?   

Quote:
Seems quite obvious to me that the person in the middle, the Supervising Producer, is the mid-level producer.  The person at the bottom, the Producer/Co-Producer, can't be 'mid-level' because he is at the bottom.

No, he's not: you're merely trying to make it look like that by leaving off "Line Producer" and "Associate Producer". Those are at the bottom, making, by your own misguided logic, both the Producer and the Supervising Producer "mid-level". It really doesn't matter, though, since this is really perfectly obvious to everyone else: the Supervising Producer supervises the Producers, just like the Supervising Art Director supervises the Art Directors, the Supervising Editor supervises the Editors and the Supervising Sound Mixer supervises the Sound Mixers. And we track all of them, all of them using the corresponding "base" credit. It's simple, consistent and accurate, and I can't imagine why it's all so hard to grasp, and why this perceived "level"-nonsense is being brought up. Again: feel free to assign a "level", a color, a nickname or a number to all of those "Supervising" credits however you deem fit, but regardless of whatever label you try to stick to them, the whole "Supervising credits are to be included" premise still remains astoundingly obvious.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Have you nothing better to do? 

Have you?   

I'm not the one being an ass.  That would be you.  Why, I have no idea.
Quote:
Quote:
Seems quite obvious to me that the person in the middle, the Supervising Producer, is the mid-level producer.  The person at the bottom, the Producer/Co-Producer, can't be 'mid-level' because he is at the bottom.

No, he's not: you're merely trying to make it look like that by leaving off "Line Producer" and "Associate Producer". Those are at the bottom, making, by your own misguided logic, both the Producer and the Supervising Producer "mid-level".

Are you misunderstanding on purpose?  I have to believe that is the case because northbloke seems to have understood what I meant.
Quote:
It really doesn't matter, though, since this is really perfectly obvious to everyone else:

If it really doesn't matter, why are you continuing with the discussion?  As I said, have you nothing better to do?
Quote:
the Supervising Producer supervises the Producers, just like the Supervising Art Director supervises the Art Directors, the Supervising Editor supervises the Editors and the Supervising Sound Mixer supervises the Sound Mixers. And we track all of them, all of them using the corresponding "base" credit. It's simple, consistent and accurate, and I can't imagine why it's all so hard to grasp, and why this perceived "level"-nonsense is being brought up. Again: feel free to assign a "level", a color, a nickname or a number to all of those "Supervising" credits however you deem fit, but regardless of whatever label you try to stick to them, the whole "Supervising credits are to be included" premise still remains astoundingly obvious.

I conceded that point a long time ago and asked a different question...one you seem unable to comprehend or answer.  I say that because I have asked the same question FIVE times now and, instead of answering it, you focus on my calling Supervising Producers 'mid-level' and repeating, for the fourth time now, the same crap that doesn't address the question.

Fortunately, nortbloke was able to provide the answer you couldn't so, for me, that issue is settled...though I can't, for the life of me, understand why my calling Supervising Producers 'mid-level' bothers you so much.  By the way you reacted, you would have thought I shot your dog or something. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
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I can't, for the life of me, understand why my calling Supervising Producers 'mid-level' bothers you so much.

Because it's beyond ridiculous - that's all. And then there's the fact that whatever imaginary "level", color or nickname you choose to stick to it, has absolutely no bearing on anything. Frankly, that whole approach is rather baffling. Other than that, I've given you all the answers, but I can't help it if you refuse to listen.

Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I'm not the one being an ass.  That would be you.

I think it's sad that you've chosen to sink to this level, but you know what? I won't even bite - I'll just be the bigger man.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
The Production Chain of Command is as follows:

  • Executive Producer

  • Supervising Producer

  • Producer/Co-Producer


  • Seems quite obvious to me that the person in the middle, the Supervising Producer, is the mid-level producer.  The person at the bottom, the Producer/Co-Producer, can't be 'mid-level' because he is at the bottom.  If you can't understand that, then I can't help you...maybe things are different on your side of the pond. 

    I don't think this is correct.  Producer is the top of the chain as far as theatrical movie is concerned.  He/she is in charge of business and creative aspects of the production of the motion picture.  Executive Producer on the other hand is for someone who's had a role in funding or securing rights to the production.  Producer does not report to the Executive Producer.  I have no idea as to what Supervising Producer is.

    PGA guidelines are as follows:

    Quote:

    PRODUCED BY

      1. The Produced By credit shall be in the primary credit position among all PGA-sanctioned credits for theatrical motion pictures.
      2. Subject to the control of the Owner (see Rules of Arbitration, section 1.B), The individual receiving Produced By credit shall have final responsibility for all business and creative aspects of the production of the motion picture, with direct participation in making decisions concerning a majority of the producing functions (see PCOC Section 1 for comprehensive list).

    CO-PRODUCER/LINE PRODUCER

      1. The credit of Co-Producer / Line Producer is to be granted to the individual who reports directly to the individual(s) receiving "Produced By" credit on the theatrical motion picture.
      2. The Co-Producer / Line Producer is the single individual who has the primary responsibility for the logistics of the production, from pre-production through completion of production; all Department Heads report to the Co-Producer / Line Producer.

    EXECUTIVE PRODUCER

      1. The credit of Executive Producer shall only apply to an individual who has made a significant contribution to the motion picture and who additionally qualifies under one of two categories:

        * Having secured an essential and proportionally significant part (no less than 25%) of the financing for the motion picture; and/or
        * Having made a significant contribution to the development of the literary property, typically including the securement of the underlying rights to the material on which the motion picture is based.

    ASSOCIATE PRODUCER

      1. The Associate Producer credit is granted solely on the decision of the individual receiving the Produced By credit, and is to be granted sparingly and only for those individuals who are delegated significant production or post production functions.
      2. The Associate Producer is responsible for performing one or more producing functions delegated to him/her by the individual receiving the Produced By credit and the Co-Producer. This does not include persons whose primary function is as an assistant.


    Then they have a separate smaller section on

    Quote:

    PRODUCTION

    PRODUCTION SUPERVISOR/MANAGER

    1. The Production Supervisor/Manager reports directly and immediately to the person performing the Co-Producer/Line Producer or UPM functions.

    2. The Production Supervisor/Manager has the primary responsibility for the logistics of the production of the motion picture, from pre-production through the completion of production.

    PRODUCTION COORDINATOR:

    1. The Production Coordinator reports to the person(s) receiving the Produced By credit, the Co-Producer/Line Producer the Production Supervisor/Manager or UPM.

    2. The Coordinator interacts with various studio and production departments concerning any and all logistics of production and is responsible for facilitating production requirements including, but not limited to, equipment contracts, purchase orders, film inventory, insurance, day player contracts, crew deal memos, travel and shipping, call sheets, production reports, cast and crew lists, and compliance with various union report requirements.

    POST-PRODUCTION SUPERVISOR
    1. The Post Production Supervisor reports directly to the Co-Producer/Line Producer.

    2. The Post Production Supervisor is responsible for the coordination and oversight of the entire post production process, but not primarily as a production company executive.

    POST PRODUCTION COORDINATOR

    1. The Post Production Coordinator reports directly to the Post Production Supervisor.

    2. The Coordinator is responsible for facilitating post production functions as assigned by the Post Supervisor, which can involve interaction with various studio and post production departments concerning any and all aspects of the logistics of post production, such as working with the vendors, helping prepare day player contracts and crew deal memos, scheduling ADR, making travel arrangements, distributing paperwork, maintaining crew lists, etc.
    My Home Theater
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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    Quoting Kathy:
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    Indeed.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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    Quoting xradman:
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    PGA guidelines are as follows:

    You're looking at the PGA guidelines for films, but the "Supervising Producer" mostly occurs in episodic television, and the PGA has a separate section on that, which I linked to earlier. Here's that link once again.
     Last edited: by T!M
    DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
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    I was wrong.  For the TV shows, I guess your hierarchy is correct.

    From the same PGA site:

    Quote:

    EXECUTIVE PRODUCER

      1. The credit of Executive Producer is to be granted to the individual whose only reporting responsibility is to the entities financing and distributing the series.
      2. Subject to the control of the Owner (see Rules of Arbitration, section I.B), the Executive Producer has final responsibility for the creative and business aspects of the production of the series, with direct participation in making decisions concerning a majority of the producing functions (see Section 3 for comprehensive list).

    CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCER

      1. The Co-Executive Producer reports directly and immediately to the Executive Producer, from whom the Co-Executive Producer assumes direct supervisory responsibilities for above and below the line operations.
      2. The credit of Co-Executive Producer is granted solely at the discretion of the Executive Producer (previous producing credits are not required).
      3. The credit of Co-Executive Producer shall apply only to primary creative contributors to the series that qualify under one of three categories:
            1. If performing services as a writer on the series, the contributor also must perform, in a decision-making capacity, a preponderance of the producing functions listed in PCOC Section 3; OR
            2. If performing services as a director on the series, the contributor also must perform, in a decision-making capacity, a preponderance of the producing functions listed in PCOC Section 3; OR
            3. If performing "Produced By” services on the series, and so long as no other person receives the "Produced By” credit on the series, the contributor must perform, in a decision-making capacity, a majority of the producing functions described in PCOC Section 3.

    SUPERVISING PRODUCER

      1. The Supervising Producer reports directly to the Exec. Producer and/or Co-Exec. Producer.
      2. The credit of Supervising Producer is granted solely at the discretion of the Exec. Producer.
      3. The credit of Supervising Producer shall apply only to primary creative contributors to the series that perform, in a decision-making capacity, a substantial number of producing functions.
      4. The credit of Supervising Producer only shall apply to primary creative contributors to the series that qualify under one of three categories:
            1. Having received the credit of Writer-Producer for no less than two full seasons of this or other series episodes that have been nationally telecast; OR
            2. Having received the credit of Producer or "Produced By” for no less than two full seasons of this or other series episodes that have been nationally telecast; OR
            3. As a director who has responsibility for supervising all episodic directors on the series.

    PRODUCED BY OR LINE PRODUCER

      1. The individual receiving the Produced By credit reports directly and immediately to the Executive Producer.
      2. There never shall be more than one Produced By credit on any episode of a series.
      3. The individual receiving the Produced By credit has the primary responsibility for the logistics of the production of the series, from pre-production through delivery of each episode; all Department Heads report directly to the Produced By.
      4. If the individual who performs the Produced By functions is granted the title of Co-Executive Producer, there shall be no Produced By credit afforded on the series.

    PRODUCER/CO-PRODUCER

      1. The Producer/Co-Producer reports directly to the Supervising Producer.
      2. The credit of Producer/Co-Producer is granted solely at the discretion of the Exec. Producer.
      3. The credit of Producer/Co-Producer shall apply only to primary creative contributors to the series that perform, in a decision-making capacity, a substantial number of producing functions.


    So, in TV, producer is really near the bottom of the producer chain of command.
    My Home Theater
    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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    Quoting T!M:
    Quote:
    Because it's beyond ridiculous - that's all. And then there's the fact that whatever imaginary "level", color or nickname you choose to stick to it, has absolutely no bearing on anything.

    Again, if that is the case, why are you spending so much time and effort on the subject.  When I find something 'beyond ridiculous', I mention it once and move on...especially if it has absolutely no bearing on anything.
    Quote:
    Frankly, that whole approach is rather baffling. Other than that, I've given you all the answers, but I can't help it if you refuse to listen.

    If that makes you feel better, go ahead and believe it.  The fact of the matter is, northbloke is the only one who gave me an answer.  He wasn't sarcastic.  He wasn't condescending.  He simply provided an answer and, for that, I thanked him.
    Quote:

    Quoting TheMadMartian:
    Quote:
    I'm not the one being an ass.  That would be you.

    I think it's sad that you've chosen to sink to this level, but you know what? I won't even bite - I'll just be the bigger man.

    Too late.
    No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
    There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
    Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
    The Centauri learned this lesson once.
    We will teach it to them again.
    Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
    - Citizen G'Kar
     Last edited: by TheMadMartian
    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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    Quoting xradman:
    Quote:
    So, in TV, producer is really near the bottom of the producer chain of command.

    Indeed.  For episodic television, the Producer is at the bottom and the only one who answers to someone other than the Executive Producer.
    No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
    There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
    Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
    The Centauri learned this lesson once.
    We will teach it to them again.
    Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
    - Citizen G'Kar
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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    Quoting TheMadMartian:
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    The fact of the matter is, northbloke is the only one who gave me an answer.

    No, that's *not* the fact of the matter. Instead, that's just your opinion, and in in my opinion, you're wrong once again. Northbloke's answer basically boiled down to "because there's a direct chain of command", and I had been doing my very best to explain the very same thing - just using different terminology. You either failed to grasp it, or you just didn't want to.
     Last edited: by T!M
    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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    Quoting T!M:
    Quote:
    Quoting TheMadMartian:
    Quote:
    The fact of the matter is, northbloke is the only one who gave me an answer.

    No, that's *not* the fact of the matter. Instead, that's just your opinion, and in in my opinion, you're wrong once again.

    As it was my question, my opinion is the only one that matters.  I am the only one who can decide who gave me a satisfactory answer to the question I asked.  To believe otherwise is arrogant beyond belief.
    Quote:
    Northbloke's answer basically boiled down to "because there's a direct chain of command", and I had been doing my very best to explain the very same thing - just using different  terminology. You either failed to grasp it, or you just didn't want to.

    I am sorry, but this simply isn't true.  All your very best did was repeat, over and over again, why we track all supervisor credits...something I already knew.  Northbloke, on the other hand, gave an explanation as to why we don't track the other producer credits...which is what I wanted to know.  While it was just his opinion, it was an opinion that made sense to me...which is all it had to do.  Why you continue to believe otherwise is beyond me, but it isn't really my problem.
    No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
    There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
    Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
    The Centauri learned this lesson once.
    We will teach it to them again.
    Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
    - Citizen G'Kar
     Last edited: by TheMadMartian
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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    Quoting TheMadMartian:
    Quote:
    All your very best did was repeat, over and over again, why we track all supervisor credits...something I already knew.

    Not true at all. I did much more, but you chose to ignore it. Note, for instance, the documented Merri D. Howard example I gave on page #2 - apparently that didn't suit you, so you just ignored it. Fine, but then don't come whining now that I didn't answer your question. I did, but you didn't want to hear it. That's the fact of the matter.

    Quote:
    Northbloke, on the other hand, gave an explanation as to why we don't track the other producer credits...which is what I wanted to know.

    Well, I've re-read northbloke's post several times, and I don't see it. I see a quick comment about what line producers do, essentially confirming what the PGA-page I had linked to earlier said about them, but nothing more. For what it's worth, rather than explaining why we don't track, say, a co-executive producer, northbloke actually expressed his surprise at why we don't track them. So quite the opposite of what you seem to think, really.

    Once again: the question you asked was "What makes this mid-level producer more worthy than the other producers?" While voicing my surprise over that strange and misguided "mid-level" qualification of yours, I answered that by providing a link to the PGA-website (here), which extensively explains what the Supervising Producer is and does, and what his position is with regards to the "regular" Producers. That answered your question in detail, as far as I'm concerned. Northbloke may have rephrased that for you, making it easier to grasp, apparently, but it's really all there. Additionally, I provided a real-life example for you, showing how PGA's dry matter works in reality. Again: you're free to ignore my posts, but don't come complaining that I didn't answer your question. I most certainly did.

    Quote:
    Why you continue to believe otherwise is beyond me, but it isn't really my problem.

    Indeed.  (From your posts I gather that we're apparently supposed to end with a bit of pointless hyperbole like that. You're so much better at that than I am, so I've just re-used some of yours, okay? Of course I could do very well without it, but hey, if you insist...)
     Last edited: by T!M
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
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    Guys, could you PLEASE stop bickering?

    Otherwise we'll have to rename these forums to, ehm... "Fight Club" is the first movie title that comes to my mind.
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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    Quoting dee1959jay:
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    Guys, could you PLEASE stop bickering?

    I'd love to. There's no point to any of it anyway. It's just that I'm sure that I've done absolutely nothing wrong here, and in return for that, I'm basically told to stop posting ("Have you nothing better to do?") and ultimately even get called a word that the forum's profanity filter displays as "derriere". I feel that's unacceptable - and rest assured that I'd feel the exact same way if it was directed at anyone else. I won't return the "favor" as far as throwing out profanities is concerned, but I will post corrections when my my words or actions are being misrepresented. That's all, as far as I'm concerned.
    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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    Quoting T!M:
    Quote:
    Quoting TheMadMartian:
    Quote:
    All your very best did was repeat, over and over again, why we track all supervisor credits...something I already knew.

    Not true at all. I did much more, but you chose to ignore it. Note, for instance, the documented Merri D. Howard example I gave on page #2 - apparently that didn't suit you, so you just ignored it. Fine, but then don't come whining now that I didn't answer your question. I did, but you didn't want to hear it. That's the fact of the matter.

    All that post does is explain that she was promoted to a supervisor position.  How you can twist that into explaining why we don't track the other producers is, again, beyond me.
    Quote:
    Well, I've re-read northbloke's post several times, and I don't see it. I see a quick comment about what line producers do, essentially confirming what the PGA-page I had linked to earlier said about them, but nothing more. For what it's worth, rather than explaining why we don't track, say, a co-executive producer, northbloke actually expressed his surprise at why we don't track them. So quite the opposite of what you seem to think, really.

    Again, it isn't up to you to decide what does and doesn't answer my question.  Northbloke did, in fact, provide an answer...

    Quoting northbloke:
    Quote:
    A line producer tends to work alongside a producer, doing a slightly different job (the line producers I know are more responsible for crewing up and dealing with the production office side of things), so I can understand why we skip them.
    As to why we skip co-executives - I don't know, I've never understood why we skip co-anything. Although sometimes "co-" can be used to mean assistant, so maybe that's why.

    ...it may not be an answer that you like, but it was an answer.
    Quote:
    Once again: the question you asked was "What makes this mid-level producer more worthy than the other producers?" While voicing my surprise over that strange and misguided "mid-level" qualification of yours, I answered that by providing a link to the PGA-website (here), which extensively explains what the Supervising Producer is and does, and what his position is with regards to the "regular" Producers. That answered your question in detail, as far as I'm concerned. Northbloke may have rephrased that for you, making it easier to grasp, apparently, but it's really all there. Additionally, I provided a real-life example for you, showing how PGA's dry matter works in reality. Again: you're free to ignore my posts, but don't come complaining that I didn't answer your question. I most certainly did.

    Once again, it is not for you to decide whether or not my question was answered.  That decision is mine and mine alone.  You don't have to like it, but it is what it is.
    No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
    There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
    Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
    The Centauri learned this lesson once.
    We will teach it to them again.
    Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
    - Citizen G'Kar
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