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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Features Question |
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| Author |
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| Registered: December 27, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote:
ASSOCIATED is the key word here. My apologies for using the wrong word, it just blurred the issue at hand.
Let me take a step back and post the rule regarding featurettes.
Quote:
Any video documentary material regarding the film, or those associated with it.
There are two factors for the featurette box to be ticked.
[b]1) It is a video documentary?
2) Is the material regarding the film or associated with it?[/b]
Now lets look if the featurette on this profile meets both of the criteria.
1) It is a video documentary? - Yes. undeniably.
2) Is the material regarding the film or associated with it? Is the material in the footage regarding the film? I'd say this portion is blurry, I can see how some might say no. But luckily the second part of it is crystal clear. Is the footage associated with the film? Yes, undeniably. It contains footage from and about the film, it was also made in conjunction of the film. How is the footage not associated with the film?
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
No. Is it documentary material regarding those associated with the film? No. Those are the only two criteria in the rules. If anyone is trying to make two plus two equal five, it's you.
Did you watch the featurette in question? The song plays in the film, and it was written specifically for the film. He discusses writing the song, was he not involved in the making of the movie? Of course he was, hence he was associated with the film. I also think you are taking 'those' as meaning the people involved, those is the plural of that, when I look at it I take it as the film itself because it makes no mention of people, just the video documentary and film. Either way how you take it, it should be marked in this case at least. no matter how much info you provide, or how logical your reasoning is, some people just don't get it and never will, it's best to just keep moving foward. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
You are missing one important word in that... "or THOSE associated with it.
In other words is it a "Video documentary regarding the film, or the people associated with the film."
That is how I have always read that line of the rules.
Edit:
I See you covered this in the last paragraph. Not sure why I didn't get that the first time I read it.
The reason I brought this up in the first place was not to find out if the Featurette check box should be checked for the featurette in question.... as it is already checked off for other Featurettes on the disc. What I basically wanted to know is since this featurette didn't seem to me to be regarding the film or those associated with it (questionable as seen by this thread)... if I should put this one in "Other Features." Or if it was already covered by the check box being checked already. No worries, it was a good question! But as you know it means very little even if a consensus is found in the forums, the mysterious screeners approve or disapprove regardless what the majority think. Think it's silly that anyone would think video footage of a songwriter whose music actually appears in the film is somehow NOT associated with the film. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,640 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote:
Think it's silly that anyone would think video footage of a songwriter whose music actually appears in the film is somehow NOT associated with the film. And I would agree. But the question asked wasn't if "video footage of a songwriter" was to be regarded as a featurette. It was if a making of a music video was to be regarded as a featurette. And it seems reasonable to assume that such a feature is actually about making the video. And if it is, then it does not qualify, in my opinion. And you keep repeating that the video is associated with the film, when it is obvious (to everyone else but you, apparently) that the wording of the rule refers to people associated with the film. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
And you keep repeating that the video is associated with the film, when it is obvious (to everyone else but you, apparently) that the wording of the rule refers to people associated with the film. It's almost always a mistake to try to speak for "everyone else". The rule actually says, "Any video documentary material regarding the film, or those associated with it". The conjunctive "or" tells me that the featurette does NOT have to be about " people associated with the film" but that any "material regarding the film" is also to be included in this field. The song in question is in the film. The music video is about the song in the film. The "material in question" is about the music video of the song that is in the film. I think it is more than reasonable for someone to conclude that the "material in question" therefore is "material regarding the film", especially after you watch it and find that there are scenes from the film in it! | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,640 |
| | Posted: | | | | You are missing my point, Hal.
DoubleDownAgain is saying that "those associated with it" refers to the video. I'm saying that "those" cannot possibly refer to the video, but must refer to people. And I firmly believe that pretty much everybody else would agree with that.
I fully understand the conjunctive "or". My opinion is that it is not a video documentary about the film if it is actually about the music video, even if the same music is also used in the film. I also contend that a making of the music video is not about "those associated with [the film]", even if it contains some footage of the songwriter. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | I should have read the entire thread before responding, Gunnar. I did take your comment out of context.
I agree that the second part of the rule refers specifically to "people".
However, the very fact that the material in question includes clips of the film, for me, undeniably qualifies it as a featurette. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
DoubleDownAgain is saying that "those associated with it" refers to the video. I'm saying that "those" cannot possibly refer to the video, but must refer to people. And I firmly believe that pretty much everybody else would agree with that. But 'everybody else' would be wrong. Please look up the definition of 'Those'. I'm not sure if English is your second language (FWIW I didn't think it was until I saw you were from Sweden) but those doesn't automatically mean that it is referring to people, it is the plural for 'That' which could mean many other things it isn't just to describe people. For example "Those Canadian films really suck!" What do 'Those' represent in that sentence? Certainly not people. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,640 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm not saying that "those" always refers to people. I'm saying that in this specific context it must refer to people. I apologize if I did not make that clear. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
I'm not saying that "those" always refers to people. I'm saying that in this specific context it must refer to people. I apologize if I did not make that clear. Why in this case? | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,640 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well, "a video documentary regarding those associated with [the film]", what else but people could that reasonably refer to? If it was supposed to mean "anything associated with the film", I'm sure it would have said that. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 485 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Well, "a video documentary regarding those associated with [the film]", what else but people could that reasonably refer to? If it was supposed to mean "anything associated with the film", I'm sure it would have said that. Don't be so sure  . We're movie enthousiasts --sorry, DVD enthousiasts-- AFAIK not lawyers or linguists. This thread is toothcombing the fine wording over 3 pages now: wow! Thankfully, everyone remains on topic. As for that, I side with T!M. | | | Eric
If it is important, say it. Otherwise, let silence speak. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,640 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with T!M on the part that the songwriter is associated with the film. I do, however, not think that a making of the music video is about him, even if he is featured in it.
If you disagree, then that's fine. That's a matter of interpretation. I do not, however, accept that "those associated with it" can refer to the video itself. I think that's an absurd view. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,330 |
| | Posted: | | | | I will have to watch the featurette itself and decide the best action to take I guess... what occurred to me is on the list of features we have...
- Say Music Video
- The Making of Say
Now I just took it for granted that meant it was a Making of the music video. It could be a featurette on the songwriter writing an original song for the movie... and not on the actual music video? Only way to be sure is to watch the featurette I guess. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Just to be a smart a$$, "those" could also refer to an animal, if one were "associated" with the film!
But in general, I agree that "those" in this context does refer to people and English is my first language! | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Let me put it this way, if the intention of the rule was to state that any video documentary footage that was associated with the film be a featurette, how would you re-word the rule?
Making the assumption that 'those' is referring to people is just that, people aren't mentioned earlier in the sentence so why would you jump to the conclusion it's about people instead of what was referenced earlier in the sentence? I can see hwo that might make sense but it also makes sense that it is refering to the video footage.
I did watch the featurette, and it does discuss him talking about writing the song that appears in the movie, so either way this should be checkmarked regardless of your interpretation of the rule. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
I agree with T!M on the part that the songwriter is associated with the film. I do, however, not think that a making of the music video is about him, even if he is featured in it.
If you disagree, then that's fine. That's a matter of interpretation. I do not, however, accept that "those associated with it" can refer to the video itself. I think that's an absurd view. Clearly I agree on both counts. Once again, here is the rule: Any video documentary material regarding the film, or those associated with it. Unless I am misreading the sentence, we have two clauses here...one independent and one dependent. On its own, the dependent clause...everything after the 'or'...doesn't make any sense. For it to make sense, we have to put it into the context of the entire sentence. That context gives us two conditions: Any video documentary material regarding the film. Any video documentary material regarding those associated with the film. In this context, 'those' refers to people. As GSyren stated, any other interpretation is absurd. I'm sorry, but it is.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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