Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting Scooter1836:

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Do the rules state to enter it "Exactly As Credited" - Answer: Yes

Do we enter it  "Exactly As Credited" - Answer: No, since we transform capital letters to small letters.

So all this discussion about "as on screen" is just wasted time.

But the rules sate to do that as well.  I did not see a need to state that since the discussion did not involve case.

Quoting DJ Doena:

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Just one question though: Does it even matter?

I thought parsing into F/M/L was a local thing anyway?

If I get a new profile with J./R./R. Tolkien and I locally already have J.R.//R. Tolkien then it would automatically adapt to my variant anyway?

I don't think so. And it impacts the CLT.

Quoting ateo357:

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Just to see how the credit on his books were I googled them. All but 1 book cover has the credit as J.R.R. Tolkien, JRR Tolkien or Tolkien. And the one that is different is J. R. R. Tolkien. (FARMER GILES OF HAM).
so not even his books have J. R.R. Tolkien.

So are you trying to say that "J." is not his first name initial, and "R.R." is not his middle name initials?

Once again we have data that doesn't neatly fit into the database.

The "rules" (based on this thread) are being read and applied in various ways so I would follow how invelos' has dealt with similar issues.

When I run into these problems, I post a query in the forums for input and to see how others see the situation.

I then make a decision, contribute the profile with a link to the correct thread and highlighting the fact that there is a debate on what is "correct".

I then let the voters and screeners decide.

Personally, I never would have thought to bring this to forums. I would enter the data this way: A./A.A./A.

Quoting hal9g:

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Quoting Scooter1836:

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There is nothing to really resolve here.  The rules cover the matter.

Au contraire. Your solution violates the Rules because you are entering incorrect data into both the FIRSTNAME field and the MIDDLENAME field. Although you have carefully avoided this issue in all of your responses it doesn't change the fact that the Rules specifically state that you are not to enter incorrect data.

Today for the screen credit "A.A. Smith" we enter in "A.A//Smith" because that is the correct data because there are no spaces between the initials and in two fields in the credits.

For the screen credit "A.A.A. Smith" we should also enter "A.A.A.//Smith" becuse that is the credit for the same reason.

In one case the filter makes alterations to one of then and one does not. 
You just want permission to second guess the design and implimentation of the filter and say we should enter it in differently.

It should be entered as on the screen in two fields and only set the common name based on the rules for a common name.

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Right now your position is personal preference, which you are allowed to have in your local database.

Wrong again. Entering the correct data into the corresponding fields in the program is anything but a personal preference. It is required by the Rules.

Your personal preference is to break up the data into three fields, set the common name in a way not defined by the rules and call it a correct representation.

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The true fact of the matter is that based on the current filter behavior and rules, the screen credit of "J.R.R. Tolkien" cannot be entered as "J./R.R./Tolkien [J.R.R. Tolkien]" because the common name is not "J. R.R. Tolkien" based on the CLT or any common name thread.  Since this your proposed manipulation is not backed up by the filter, the rules, or any clarification there is no validity to it as far as a contribution to the online database is concerned.

Oh, I see. So your argument is that since it is wrong in all of the existing profiles in the database, it musn't be corrected. Just another example of why the CLT is a disastrous solution to name linking and why we need to go to a single name field.

Like I said, the solution I proposed gives everyone exactly what they want and preserves the integrity of the data. Obviously that's not your goal.

You and I have different definitions of data integrity.  Your vision of data integrity is "what you want to see" or "What you believe the data should be", mine is based on the rule set defined for that data element in the database by the database owner.  You think the integrity falls into something outside those definitions. 

The solution you propose is not allowed by the rules and allows the propogation of inconsistent data because there is no clear no clear definition on how to consistantly arrive at what you see as correct value. The "real" name as opposed to the "common" name.

Data consistency is important to data integrity.


Again a simple fact of what we have today:

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The online database captures the name "As Credited", not the person's real name.  The common name is based on the most common credited name for the person within the Invelos database.  Not what you or I may consider the persons "real" name to be.

What we have today is the CLT.  If you wish to propose something different you should take it to the rules forum or propose it as an enhancement.  But in this case a single name field is not going to help you much.

The whole issue of linking and whether to have a single name field or not is a completely different subject any solution is a huge change that will need to involve the database owner.

I think all of us would like to see a different solution for linking, but until we have one we need to work with what we have.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting Kathy:

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Personally, I never would have thought to bring this to forums. I would enter the data this way: A./A.A./A.

I wouldn't have thought to bring this to the forums either, but I would have entered it as 'A.A.A./ /Smith'.

Same here. Two fields in the screen credit, two fields in the contribution.  If Ken would have wanted the filter to alter this condition, he would have coded for it.

Quoting Scooter1836:

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Today for the screen credit "A.A. Smith" we enter in "A.A//Smith" because that is the correct data because there are no spaces between the initials and in two fields in the credits.

For the screen credit "A.A.A. Smith" we should also enter "A.A.A.//Smith" becuse that is the credit for the same reason.

In one case the filter makes alterations to one of then and one does not. 
You just want permission to second guess the design and implimentation of the filter and say we should enter it in differently.

It should be entered as on the screen in two fields and only set the common name based on the rules for a common name.

DING...DING...DING...we have a winner.  We do not enter A.A. Smith as 'A./A./Smith [A.A. Smith]', we enter it as 'A.A./ /Smith' and the program changes it during the contribution process.  Nowhere in the rules are we told to do otherwise.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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I wouldn't have thought to bring this to the forums either, but I would have entered it as 'A.A.A./ /Smith'.

I would have used 'J./R. R./Tolkien' and kept it local, letting the rest of you argue about it.

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