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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Previous   Next
Complete TV series sets
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorNewEnglander
Registered: 11/13/2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Actually...

The rules do not state "You are not allowed to submit child profiles for TV series discs".

it also does not say that you can.

It's a gray area.

Why can't you use the profile for what you want and keep it local and let them use it for what they want and keep it local?

Or, is that asking too much. Let's see who agrees first, Hal or John (I have my bets)
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
You can't do a correct profile strictly by the rules because the rules are in conflict and ambiguous in several areas.  Try to get Hal and his cronies to admit that, however.


But that's not your decision. Until the rules are "fixed", we have to follow them. You can petition Ken & Gerri as much as you like to get them changed but until then we all have to follow the same rules. You can't just decide which rules to follow and which ones to ignore.

Or are you giving us all carte blanche to change the profiles to any way we see fit, and if other people don't like it we can just say "oh, it's the rules - they're vague".


It is patently obvious from the sheer number of disc level profiles associated with TV seasons already in the database that a LOT of people want that format.  That means that the current rules are not doing the job they were intended to do.  The rules ARE vague, and they ARE inadequate for this situation, and a slavish, blinder's-on attitude when dealing with the "other half" is counter productive and devisive, at the least.  All those people are not going to just fade into the wallpaper.

Now, we already came to a compromise on this just last week.  Now, the usual suspects are doing what appears to me their dead level best to break that compromise once again.  Some of us have offered a workable solution for better than two years, yet WE are ones called wrong.  Both sides have to bargain in good faith in order to reach a compromise, and I don't see many on your side willing to even allow there might be a difference, let alone meet us halfway.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting pplchamp:
Quote:
Actually...

The rules do not state "You are not allowed to submit child profiles for TV series discs".

it also does not say that you can.

It's a gray area.

Why can't you use the profile for what you want and keep it local and let them use it for what they want and keep it local?

Or, is that asking too much. Let's see who agrees first, Hal or John (I have my bets)


We already came to a compromise.  I already agree to live by it.  I am NOT the one throwing rocks in the gears here now.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I don't know anything about a "compromise".  What I do know is that Ken said on these forum that he saw no problem with people contributing child profiles for TV Sets and that the parent profiles should follow the TV Set Rules and retain all the data accordingly.  In other words, the Parent is not to be treated as a Boxset; that means no boxset contents should be added.

Ken did not see a problem when he made that statement here in the forums, and at the time, nobody else did either.

It is now apparent that there actually is a problem.  There is a conflict when the first disc of a single season is used to create a profile for just the episodes on it (as a child profile for that season) AND there is a Complete Series released without UPCs for the individual seasons.  In that case, the disc ID of the first disc in each season needs to be used to profile the entire season, not just that particular disc.

Since the Rules specifically address Complete Series of TV shows, and do not address child profiles for TV Sets, it seems obvious to me that the Complete Series method would take precedence over the child profile method.

Other than this situation, and the fact that people continue to add boxset contents, to the parent profiles, I have no issue with creating child profiles.  Never have!
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
I don't know anything about a "compromise".  What I do know is that Ken said on these forum that he saw no problem with people contributing child profiles for TV Sets and that the parent profiles should follow the TV Set Rules and retain all the data accordingly.  In other words, the Parent is not to be treated as a Boxset; that means no boxset contents should be added.

Ken did not see a problem when he made that statement here in the forums, and at the time, nobody else did either.

It is now apparent that there actually is a problem.  There is a conflict when the first disc of a single season is used to create a profile for just the episodes on it (as a child profile for that season) AND there is a Complete Series released without UPCs for the individual seasons.  In that case, the disc ID of the first disc in each season needs to be used to profile the entire season, not just that particular disc.

Since the Rules specifically address Complete Series of TV shows, and do not address child profiles for TV Sets, it seems obvious to me that the Complete Series method would take precedence over the child profile method.

Other than this situation, and the fact that people continue to add boxset contents, to the parent profiles, I have no issue with creating child profiles.  Never have!


No, that's YOUR interpretation of what he said.  He said nothing at all about box set contents, either for or against.  You can't assume that he did.  And there is no problem.  You don't like that contents, delete it locally.  Otherwise, leave it alone!

Many of those earlier profiles are from sets that had the discs in their own keep cases, and those have to be profiled individually, just as they were originally.  Those profiles take precedence over reissues, which is what the complete sets are since they don't come in individual keep cases, but digipacks.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Ken did not see a problem when he made that statement here in the forums, and at the time, nobody else did either.

For the sake of those who never read that topic, here's Ken's statement, just so everyone has all the info:
Quote:
General consensus seems to be allowing child profiles for TV box sets, one profile per disc, while still having cast and crew in the parent profile, separated with dividers. 

Users who don't want the child profiles don't download them.  Box sets have an intrinsic automatic lock after first download, so no problem there. 

For those who don't want the cast/crew in the parent profile, they clear it and lock it.

Do I have the summary right?  If so, what are the objections of the dissenters?


OK, on with the fight! 

I think hal9g is right, when that compromise was reached, this problem of child profiles having to represent both the individual disc and the whole season (for multi-season sets) hadn't raised it's ugly head.
I think if you want to keep the child profiles then until we're allowed box sets inside box sets then we're going to have to make sure that not only does the parent profile contain all the season's info, but the 1st child profile does as well. That way, people can download all the info and delete what they don't need locally.
Because the only other option is unfortunately to have 1 season, 1 profile.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTracer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 951
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John, the Buffy season sets did not come in keep cases but in digipacks.
Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
I don't know anything about a "compromise".  What I do know is that Ken said on these forum that he saw no problem with people contributing child profiles for TV Sets and that the parent profiles should follow the TV Set Rules and retain all the data accordingly.  In other words, the Parent is not to be treated as a Boxset; that means no boxset contents should be added.

Ken did not see a problem when he made that statement here in the forums, and at the time, nobody else did either.

It is now apparent that there actually is a problem.  There is a conflict when the first disc of a single season is used to create a profile for just the episodes on it (as a child profile for that season) AND there is a Complete Series released without UPCs for the individual seasons.  In that case, the disc ID of the first disc in each season needs to be used to profile the entire season, not just that particular disc.

Since the Rules specifically address Complete Series of TV shows, and do not address child profiles for TV Sets, it seems obvious to me that the Complete Series method would take precedence over the child profile method.

Other than this situation, and the fact that people continue to add boxset contents, to the parent profiles, I have no issue with creating child profiles.  Never have!


No, that's YOUR interpretation of what he said.  He said nothing at all about box set contents, either for or against.  You can't assume that he did.  And there is no problem.  You don't like that contents, delete it locally.  Otherwise, leave it alone!

Many of those earlier profiles are from sets that had the discs in their own keep cases, and those have to be profiled individually, just as they were originally.  Those profiles take precedence over reissues, which is what the complete sets are since they don't come in individual keep cases, but digipacks.


Because he did not say anything about it does not mean he endorsed it, either.  Since the Rules say the only time you can apply the boxset rules to TV sets is for Complete Series, conversely, you cannot apply the boxset Rules to single TV Seasons.  I know that is a difficult concept for you to grasp, John, but it is simple and straightforward logic.

In order to start allowing boxset contents, Ken will need to affirm that it is OK to ignore the Current Rules. 

There is no interpretation here, whatsoever.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:

In order to start allowing boxset contents, Ken will need to affirm that it is OK to ignore the Current Rules. 


I think we do need this, I'm relatively new to the forums and had never seen the other topic. If Ken genuinely wants us to start profiling TV Series differently to what the rules say, then at the very least we need a pinned topic telling us what the new format should be.
Until then, these discussions are going to go nowhere, because neither system is wholly suitable as the program stands.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
John, the Buffy season sets did not come in keep cases but in digipacks.


Doesn't matter, there are other TV sets that WERE in keeps, but have been reissued as mega sets in digipack format.  My reasoning still stands.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTracer
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Your reasoning is based entirely upon personal preference and not according to the rules.

I have no problem how you want to handle your personal database but, we are talking about the online DB.
Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnuoyaxin
prev. known as ya_shin
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Taiwan, Province of China Posts: 3,436
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Quoting pplchamp:
Quote:
Actually...

The rules do not state "You are not allowed to submit child profiles for TV series discs".

it also does not say that you can.

It's a gray area.

I agree, that you couild call that a gray area.

But the fact that a profile following the Rules should not be created because a profile that falls in that gray area is kinda of hard to believe...
Achim [諾亞信; Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
Your reasoning is based entirely upon personal preference and not according to the rules.

I have no problem how you want to handle your personal database but, we are talking about the online DB.



No, my reasoning is based on experience working with databases for a lot of years, both as user and designer.  Its based on some hard lessons in practicality learned using some very large and very complicated databases, and knowing that ironclad standards of data entry must be maintained or the information IN the database is worthless.  And its based on ease of handling for display purposes so that people who don't know how databases are built or function can make real world use of the data in them.

For example, when you have a data set that is already broken into convenient chunks, it is good basic design to utilize that pre-established division when setting up the database.  Here, of course, I'm referring to the disc level.  Why, because a disc has a unique identifier - a key - that makes indexing and other functions much easier to accomplish.

So, you want to call that personal preference, go right ahead.  But don't blame me when your all in one basket model falls apart under its own weight.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLopek
Lovely day for a...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Rifter:
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For example, when you have a data set that is already broken into convenient chunks, it is good basic design to utilize that pre-established division when setting up the database.  Here, of course, I'm referring to the disc level.  Why, because a disc has a unique identifier - a key - that makes indexing and other functions much easier to accomplish.

But it is not a unique identifier in this case, as the same identifier (the disc 1 ID) is needed for both the season level set in a multi-season set, and the first disc-level profile in a single season set if disc level profiles are used.

So your whole argument breaks down.
Andy

"Credited as" Names Database
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Actually, his argument does not break down, but that's another story and I will save it for another time. But John is right.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
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Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLopek
Lovely day for a...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
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Actually, his argument does not break down, but that's another story and I will save it for another time. But John is right.

Skip

So I am just supposed to take your word for it as you say so? Without any documentation to back it up for the permanent record? 
Andy

"Credited as" Names Database
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