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    Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Previous   Next
The horrors of dubbing
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registranttipi
Registered: March 13, 2007
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In Finland all terrestrial analogue broadcasts were shut down in the beginning of this month.
All analogue cable broadcast will be shut down in February (or March, I am not sure).
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
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Quoting Hybinette:
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Why are most (/all) films in Germany dubbed?

I think the answer is quite simple: Money!

If you dub a movie, then there are about 100Million people who can go (or at least be carried) to the cinema an pay for the movie. Compared to this potential, dubbing is cheap for German speaking countries.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the German movie industry was rather strong at the beginning of movie making. So we were never forced to consume English or other foreign films. If the filmmakers wanted German speaking people to watch (and pay for) a movie, they had to bring it to the German market - will say: dub it... - and that hasn't changed till now.
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If I don't understand the language of a film, then I want subtitles, not dubbing.

Can't agree on that. Either original audio (only English is acceptable here for me) or German dubbed. I don't want to concentrate on subtitles; picture is more important for me than audio - at least most of the times.

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Don't tell me that it's inconvienient or that it pulls away the attention from the movie, cause I haven't heard anyone in Sweden complain about that.

It's inconvenient, that's a fact. But it is not inacceptable. - Maybe it's a matter of quality? - The german dubbing is most of the times at rather high quality compared to other languages - sometimes even better than the original dialogue: "Die Zwei" was a hit over here, while "The Persuaders" flopped awfully... - Conclusively I'd say, it's less pain to choose the German audio track than choosing German subtitles - most of the time.

Regards, AA
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
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Quoting AiAustria:
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ometimes even better than the original dialogue: "Die Zwei" was a hit over here, while "The Persuaders" flopped awfully
Wow. 4 pages. I expected to get exactly this example since the first page. It seems to be the standard argument when it comes to dubbing.
Karsten
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Quoting DJ Doena:
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Quoting AiAustria:
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ometimes even better than the original dialogue: "Die Zwei" was a hit over here, while "The Persuaders" flopped awfully
Wow. 4 pages. I expected to get exactly this example since the first page. It seems to be the standard argument when it comes to dubbing.

I don't really count it as dubbing but as rewriting the dialog. But it shows the possible...

Regards, AA
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
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Another reason not to use subtitles is that they are not the full original dialog. They are sort of a shortened dialog. Sentences and words are changed so to fit in the screen. If the characters in the movie speak quicky, sometimes entire sentences are missing. When you translate subtitles to another language, it gets even worse.
If dubbing is an "evil", subtitles and translated subtitles can be a bigger "evil". 
-- Enry
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Well, and what is the conlusion of this thread? Before we watch the next e.g. Mongolian experimental film, we should learn the appropriate language, to enjoy the entire, unaltered ambiance of the films 
Thorsten
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Quoting EnryWiki:
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Another reason not to use subtitles is that they are not the full original dialog. They are sort of a shortened dialog. Sentences and words are changed so to fit in the screen. If the characters in the movie speak quicky, sometimes entire sentences are missing. When you translate subtitles to another language, it gets even worse.
If dubbing is an "evil", subtitles and translated subtitles can be a bigger "evil". 


The same goes for dubbing however. They don't always translate every literal word to what they dub to another language in the studio. Often they'll cut out entire sentences there too, or to what will fit the lip movements on screen the best.
Corey
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Quoting Katatonia:
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Quoting EnryWiki:
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Another reason not to use subtitles is that they are not the full original dialog. They are sort of a shortened dialog. Sentences and words are changed so to fit in the screen. If the characters in the movie speak quicky, sometimes entire sentences are missing. When you translate subtitles to another language, it gets even worse.
If dubbing is an "evil", subtitles and translated subtitles can be a bigger "evil". 


The same goes for dubbing however. They don't always translate every literal word to what they dub to another language in the studio. Often they'll cut out entire sentences there too, or to what will fit the lip movements on screen the best.


Affirmative! It can spoil a film as well, if e.g. jokes are localized. This is sometimes simply embarrassing.
Thorsten
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
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Quoting kahless:
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Affirmative! It can spoil a film as well, if e.g. jokes are localized. This is sometimes simply embarrassing.


You are right, but localized jokes will be lost in translated subtitles as well.
-- Enry
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Quoting kahless:
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Well, and what is the conlusion of this thread? Before we watch the next e.g. Mongolian experimental film, we should learn the appropriate language, to enjoy the entire, unaltered ambiance of the films 


Not just learn the language, you also need to get to know their culture, history, famous people, dialects, and so on, in order to catch all the references in the movie 

For instance, in "Alfie" the lead character speaks with a Cockney accent. If you don't get that, and what speaking with a Cockney accent implies, that reference would be lost anyway, even if you watch the movie in the original language.

At the end of the day, a GOOD dubbing by GOOD actors can "put in touch" with the characters and the emotions the movie is supposed to convey better than just reading subtitles, if you are not familiar with the original language. IMHO 
-- Enry
 Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantHybinette
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Sure, a lot of jokes/references are lost through translation, either dubbing or subtitles, and I know very well that the subtitles are usually shortened compared to the dialog.
However, they USUALLY (not always) do a pretty good job anyway, and the "extra dialog" is most of the times not really relevant. And as somebody said, this might as well happen in the dubbings, so they kind of even each other out.

I don't really know how to explain, it's just a feeling. I mean, I've watched a lot of asian horror movies, and they speak languages that I don't understand a word of.
But still, I WANT to hear the original voices, just because... Well, it's like, I can still notice the appropriate reactions, and hear the fright in their voices when they get scared, and it really adds to the feeling even though I don't undersand. There's ALWAYS something going wrong when dubbing a film. The scream/laughter has to match the actors face expression EXACTLY, otherwise it's just too obvious.

And for example, if I watched a french/italian/german/etc movie in a swedish dub, don't you think I'd notice?
It doesn't matter how well made the dub is, I would notice instantly.
And not just "notice", the movie would be screaming DUBDUBDUBDUBDUBDUBDUB in my face throughout the entire movie.

And even though these following arguments may not be that relevant for all, I still want to ask:
Do people actually talk about good/bad actors in these countries? I mean, how can you say for example that Bill Murray is funny, while Jim Carrey isn't? Or do you just speak about the dubbing actors instead?

Second. Not sure how to put this, but don't you guys think about how much of a disgrace this is towards the actors, the director, and the whole film itself?
I mean, imagine if I walked into Musée du Louvre in Paris and painted a mustache and a beard on this particular Lady:

That'd be blasphemy. Just like with dubbings.
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Quoting Hybinette:
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I mean, imagine if I walked into Musée du Louvre in Paris and painted a mustache and a beard on this particular Lady:

That'd be blasphemy. Just like with dubbings.

No, that would be pure comedy  Can I visit you in Jail??
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkahless
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Quoting FunkyLA:
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Quoting Hybinette:
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I mean, imagine if I walked into Musée du Louvre in Paris and painted a mustache and a beard on this particular Lady:

That'd be blasphemy. Just like with dubbings.

No, that would be pure comedy  Can I visit you in Jail??


Can I visit you in hospital when french users read this? 
Thorsten
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I watch every movie in their original spoken language together with either Dutch or English subtitles. The only exceptions are animated movies if I watch them with my children. I don't mind because cartoon characters do not really have their own voices anyway.
Martin Zuidervliet

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Same here.

As I recall from adolescence, German TV used to broadcast many westerns and thrillers dubbed in German. That always gave us a good laugh. "Indianer!" (Indians!). "Hände hoch, sonst knallts!" (Hands up, or I'll shoot!).
Worst experience with dubbing was when visiting Poland: a single bland voice doing a voiceover of all the actors, with the original sound still audible, but - very frustrating! - not loud enough to be able to hear what they're saying. In Polish cinemas, however, films were subtitled. Same thing as someone in this thread reported on Hungary. Question of money, presumably.

With regard to analogue broadcasting: in Holland analogue broadcasts have stopped completely. It's digital-only now. However, the vast majority of the population has cable TV at home, and that's analogue in its cheapest form. More and more people are getting digital cable TV subscriptions - in some cases these digital broadcasts offer several audio tracks, in some cases they have optional subtitling.
 Last edited: by dee1959jay
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Quoting Hybinette:
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(Final thing! People from France, Italy etc are also welcome to answer. I think the situation is pretty much the same over there..?)
Schönes Wochenende!


In Belgium, the flemish part doesn't dub any movie (except the one for kids)... But in the french-speaking part, (almost) all movies are dubbed...
The reason is simply an economic one: dubbing is more expensive than subtitling... and dubbing for 20M dutch speaking persons (NED+BEL) is not the best deal... But it is for 70M french-speaking persons (in Europe).
Though I live in the french-speaking part of Belgium, I HATE dubbing. That's why as soon as I could afford it, I took a subscription to premium channels (Canal+) to be able to watch movies in original version with FR subs... Ditto for DVD, I bought a player (and DVDs) as soon as they were available in Europe (March '97).
But there's hope, France's main free channels (TF1 and M6) will switch to multiple audio track (ENG audio with FRE sub or FRE audio) on selected TV series and movies...
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