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Why Conservatives Just Lovve McCain (Locked)
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantSnark
Registered: June 3, 2007
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Quoting kdh1949:
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And I don't happen to like the way Obama sidesteps issues and questions which don't suit him.  For me, experience IS important, and I'm not impressed with Obama's.  Sure, inexperience can be fixed -- but the job of President of the United States in no place for on-the-job training in basics.


Everyone needs to make their own call on that one.  He is conversent with the issues and has a plan. (albeit one I'm not enthralled with)

For my part I'm more troubled by McCain's ever morphing positions as he tries to appease the base and his apparent temper control issues. 

If I had a choice neither man would be in the running, but here we are...
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
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There is no such thing as having experience to be President unless you were already President.  That particular experience is only on-the-job training.

To give an analogy with learning to be a parent.  You can go to school to learn how to take care of children and open up your own Daycare center and manage it for a decade from running classes of all age groups to running the entire center.  However, it's a totally different ballgame the moment you have your own child.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Quoting northbloke:
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Quoting Daddy DVD:
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It seems to me that the choice for him is based on personal integrity rather than on where he stands for. This strikes me as little bit odd if I may say so.

You have to remember the Americans don't really have much choice when it comes to elections. They can't really vote based on what a person stands for because they only have two choices! If neither of those two people have policies you agree with, you're pretty much screwed!


If that's what you think, you really don't understand our system.  This country isn't like Britain where the PM is pretty much the one who runs things.  We have 535 members of Congress, elected by the people, who come from all walks of life and levels of experience.  Congress runs the country for the most part, with the President signing bills and sending troops out when needed.  We have a three part government consisting of Legislature, Executive, and Judicial, with Constitutional checks and balances built in.  So the system is rather more complex than just having one person to vote for as you put it.

The important thing is that even in the most trying of times and under the most divisive circumstances, we have had a peaceful transition of power every four years since 1789, even during the Civil War.  Not many countries can make that claim.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Quoting Daddy DVD:
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Quoting northbloke:
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They can't really vote based on what a person stands for because they only have two choices!

Two? I thought they had three. If I'm not mistaken there are also indepedents who can be voted on.



The Founding Fathers designed our system to revolve around two parties for the express reason of avoiding the parliamentary system of coalitions and factions prevalent in most of Europe.  Take note, however, that there is no prohibition against other parties running candidates.  You have to gather enough signatures on a petition to qualify for the ballot, and that requires that you have a message that resonates with enough people.  If you can't convince enough people to back you as a candidate chances are you wouldn't win anyway.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Quoting Rico:
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Hi Dan,

should have been '...trying to prove how lame...'

As far as who I support, not 100% sure currently, but McCain scares me with his war mentality.

Take Care
Rico



What war mentality is that?  That we would finish the job and win rather than cut and run?  If that makes him a war monger, then go John!
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Quoting Rico:
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Hi Guys,

I'm a Viet Nam veteran with 3 tours of duty, & was told communism would engulf (domino theory) the whole area, if we didn't stop the red commies. It did not quite turn out that way, now you see wall street companies setting up business there.

Skip - Save your lecture pal. Yes we need to maintain a strong military!

Brian - I'm quite aware of Mr. McCains exploits & heroism. The need to remind me is/was unnecessary! What you fail to address is the constant talk, & warnings of war, by McCain as depicted in the film. Your argument is your opinion, not some fact that makes him less prone to war. Interviews with 3 - 4 top ranking Generals, have expressed how they would be un-comfortable with him controlling our nukes, due to his un-controlled anger.

Take Care
Rico


Come on, Rico, that uncontrolled anger thing is a load of crap perpetrated by those who do not like McCain.  They mistake vehemence and passion for anger.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantSnark
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Quoting lyonsden5:
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Actually knowledge can be "fixed" easier than experience. You can learn things by studying them and can learn things before you need to know them. Gaining knowledge is easy. Experience however only happens after the fact.

You can't overcome inexperience without actually having some experience in that field. You can overcome a lack of knowledge by learning about that field.


EDIT: edited to fix the quote


Lack of knowledge can be fixed, yes.  But when someone on a presidential ticket has virtually no knowledge of the issues of the day that speaks to character.  If she didn't take enough interest to keep up to date on the issues of the day she shouldn't be running.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Quoting Snark:
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Quoting lyonsden5:
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Actually knowledge can be "fixed" easier than experience. You can learn things by studying them and can learn things before you need to know them. Gaining knowledge is easy. Experience however only happens after the fact.

You can't overcome inexperience without actually having some experience in that field. You can overcome a lack of knowledge by learning about that field.


EDIT: edited to fix the quote


Lack of knowledge can be fixed, yes.  But when someone on a presidential ticket has virtually no knowledge of the issues of the day that speaks to character.  If she didn't take enough interest to keep up to date on the issues of the day she shouldn't be running.



Oh, come on.  You're basing that on one interview where she was sandbagged by Katie Couric.  By the time she got to the VP debate, she didn't have any problem matching Biden point for point.  And as time has gone on, on the campaign trail she has gotten better and better.  She is known as a quick study in Alaska by those she ran against, and she showed it in THIS campaign.  Whatever else she might be, she is down-home folks, and a breath of fresh air compared to the glib, cynical, snake oil salesmen that pass for most of our politicians.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantSnark
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Quoting Rifter:
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Oh, come on.  You're basing that on one interview where she was sandbagged by Katie Couric.  By the time she got to the VP debate, she didn't have any problem matching Biden point for point.  And as time has gone on, on the campaign trail she has gotten better and better.  She is known as a quick study in Alaska by those she ran against, and she showed it in THIS campaign.  Whatever else she might be, she is down-home folks, and a breath of fresh air compared to the glib, cynical, snake oil salesmen that pass for most of our politicians.


Sandbagged??!?!     

She was asked basic questions and it was apparent that she not only didn't have answers, it was clear she didn't always understand the question. 

As far as the debate went... Let's be honest, she matched nothing.  She avoided questions as much as possible and kept on repeating soundbites to eat up the time she couldn't fill with substance.  As far as dodging the issues went... yeah, her performance certainly improved.  But is an ability to dodge the question what you're looking for in a VP?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRico
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Registered: April 8, 2007
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Hi Guys,

Rifter - Please watch This and then explain why Republicans are abandoning the McCain ship. You can earn bonus points if your explanation shows how his 'losing control' would be beneficial.

Watch the video (5:30 min) then comment!!!!!!!!!


Take Care
Rico
If I felt any better I'd be sick!
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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I am not Rifter but, as I said before, that video doesn't show any anger.  McCain sounded annoyed, at being asked the same question over and over, but I didn't see any anger.  If that is the best example, then they are reaching...a LOT.  No surprise the the report is on MSNBC.  They are to the left, what FOX News is to the right. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
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Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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I seems that the Good senator from has pulled a Hillary getting shot at faux pas in last night's debate. I am sure yoy recall when mentioned comments of Kill him when his name was metioned at a McCain rally.

Welll...this from the Times Leader

Secret Service says "Kill him" allegation unfounded

By Andrew M. Seder aseder@timesleader.com
Staff Writer

SCRANTON – The agent in charge of the Secret Service field office in Scranton said allegations that someone yelled “kill him” when presidential hopeful Barack Obama’s name was mentioned during Tuesday’s Sarah Palin rally are unfounded.

The Scranton Times-Tribune first reported the alleged incident on its Web site Tuesday and then again in its print edition Wednesday. The first story, written by reporter David Singleton, appeared with allegations that while congressional candidate Chris Hackett was addressing the crowd and mentioned Obama’s name a man in the audience shouted “kill him."

News organizations including ABC, The Associated Press, The Washington Monthly and MSNBC’s Countdown with Keith Olbermann reported the claim, with most attributing the allegations to the Times-Tribune story.

Agent Bill Slavoski said he was in the audience, along with an undisclosed number of additional secret service agents and other law enforcement officers and not one heard the comment.

“I was baffled,” he said after reading the report in Wednesday’s Times-Tribune.

He said the agency conducted an investigation Wednesday, after seeing the story, and could not find one person to corroborate the allegation other than Singleton.

Slavoski said more than 20 non-security agents were interviewed Wednesday, from news media to ordinary citizens in attendance at the rally for the Republican vice presidential candidate held at the Riverfront Sports Complex. He said Singleton was the only one to say he heard someone yell “kill him.”

“We have yet to find someone to back up the story,” Slavoski said. “We had people all over and we have yet to find anyone who said they heard it.”

Hackett said he did not hear the remark.

Slavoski said Singleton was interviewed Wednesday and stood by his story but couldn’t give a description of the man because he didn’t see him he only heard him.

When contacted Wednesday afternoon, Singleton referred questions to Times-Tribune Metro Editor Jeff Sonderman. Sonderman said, “We stand by the story. The facts reported are true and that’s really all there is.”

Slavoski said the agents take such threats or comments seriously and immediately opened an investigation but after due diligence “as far as we’re concerned it’s closed unless someone comes forward.” He urged anyone with knowledge of the alleged incident to call him at 346-5781. “We’ll run at all leads,” he said.


Oh yeah, i trust him...about as far as i can throw him.

Skip
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Billy Video
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Rico,

First of all I salute your service to your country. Anyone who serves deserves great credit for it -- particularly those who served in times of war.

My point about McCain was that the notion that he is a war monger is offbase to my mind based on what I've heard from him over the years. His record on Guatanamo and other issues suggests someone who is thoughtful about issues of war and peace. I don't necessarily agree with him 100% about those issues but I can recognize he deserves a great deal of respect in his views on prisoner treatment issues. Anyone who in a time of war who stands against his own party, a president of his party, and quite frankly public opinion (I don't think most Americans were or are terribly concerned about waterboarding a few senior Al-Aqaeda keaders) is not some kind of reckless warmonger.

On the military leaders bent -- most of the piece you site comes from the mouth of a liberal reporter working for a liberal online magazine being questioned by a notedly rapid anti-Republican commentator.... so in other words its mostly a liberal reporter offering up his opinion about John McCain -- not very credible. As for the Generals mentioned all of them are supporting Democrats running against McCain and its unclear whether any of the 3 really know McCain at all well. The reporter even said one of them referred to McCain's "reputation" -- is that really evidence of anything -- an Obama supporter saying McCain has a bad reputation?


How about this as a counter:

Quote:
As retired military officers, we share a natural hesitancy to engage actively in politics. There is a healthy discomfort in our profession with any political involvement because the country rightly depends on our military to support any commander in chief with our best military advice and our actions. But two factors compel us to speak out now and openly support John McCain for President: first, the surprising and inaccurate questioning of his record by some of Senator Obama’s leading supporters; and second, the importance to our national security of winning the war we are fighting.

The United States is confronted by many threats to its security and prosperity. Most significantly, we are engaged in a broad conflict with Islamic extremism against enemies espousing the same radical and violent ideology whose full dimensions the American people first glimpsed on September 11, 2001. Success in this war will require not only victory in the “hot” conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, but as well a balanced and integrated application of all elements of America’s national power as we work with our allies around the world to marginalize radicals and build a shared vision for peace with moderate Islam.

We are privileged to have had the opportunity to serve this country in uniform for most of our adult lives. We have had the honor of commanding young Americans of the same caliber and tenacity as those who today remain on the front lines, willingly sacrificing their own well-being and security and offering their lives in order to preserve our freedom. They deserve, and the American people demand, leadership of proven character — leadership that will always put America’s interests ahead of personal gain and political party.

It is our experience as former senior military officers that also gives us great concern about certain foreign policy positions staked out by Senator Obama. We are acutely aware that ill-conceived policies will have serious, if not tragic, consequences for military commanders, the troops they lead, and the nation. We are particularly concerned about his public statements, including his call for a withdrawal from Iraq, unconditional talks with the leaders of rogue states, and the return to a law-enforcement approach to protecting our country from terrorists.

This country has learned the peril of treating terrorists and their state sponsors as little more than a law enforcement problem. We are unanimous in our view that the failures of the past should not be repeated, and we believe that John McCain’s long record of national service, and his demonstrated judgment on matters of national security, make clear who can best defend this country abroad, and assure peace and prosperity at home.

Through a lifetime of service in uniform and in Congress, John McCain has consistently displayed the wisdom and courage to do the right thing for America regardless of the cost to him personally. It is for this reason, above all others, that we endorse John McCain for President, and it is for this reason that we stand with him now as he continues his long history of service to this country.

James B. Davis, General, USAF (RET.)
Ronald J. Hays, Admiral, USN (RET)
James L. Holloway, Admiral, USN (RET)
Jerome L. Johnson, Admiral, USN, (RET)
P.X. Kelley, General, USMC, (RET)
James J. Lindsay, General, USA (RET)
John Michael Loh, General, USAF, (RET)
Leighton W. Smith, Admiral, USN (RET)
Carl Stiner, General, USA (RET)
Donald C. “Deese” Thompson, Vice Admiral, USCG, (RET)
Howard B. Thorsen, Vice Admiral, USCG, (RET)


or this:

Quote:
ARLINGTON, VA — Today over 100 retired admirals and generals endorsed John McCain for President of the United States at a press conference in Columbia, South Carolina. These distinguished leaders supporting John McCain come from all branches of the armed services and include former POWs, Medal of Honor recipients and former members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

John McCain was joined today in Columbia by five distinguished military veterans: Admiral Leighton “Snuffy” Smith, USN (Ret.); Vice Admiral Mike Bowman, USN (Ret.); Rear Admiral Tom Lynch, USN (Ret.); Rear Admiral Bob Shumaker, USN (Ret.); and Major General Stan Spears, USA, Adjutant General of South Carolina.

“This nation is at war and we’d better damn well understand that fact,” said Admiral Leighton “Snuffy” Smith, USN (Ret.). “John McCain understands it, and he is the only candidate that has not wavered one bit in his position regarding the importance of victory in the war against Islamic extremism or in his commitment to the troops who are doing the fighting. He has consistently demonstrated the kind and style of leadership that we believe is essential in our next Commander in Chief. Our nation faces a growing array of serious foreign policy challenges. John McCain is the ONE candidate who, in our view, truly understands the strategic landscape and is fully prepared to deal decisively and effectively with those who wish to be our friends and, importantly, those who wish us harm.”

John McCain thanked the admirals and generals, stating, “I am deeply honored to have the support of so many distinguished military leaders. I thank them for the trust they have in me, but more importantly, our nation is indebted to their service in defense of our freedom. Our next president will face two wars and an array of national security challenges around the world. My experience, knowledge and background have prepared me to confront these great challenges and lead as commander in chief from day one.”


I'll find a few more but you get the drift -- McCain has tremendous support from former senior military men -- seemingly far more than are against him and the ones that this liberal reporters came up with to push this notion that McCain is not suited for commander are all (big surprise!) suppporters of his opponent.

Brian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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Quoting Unicus69:
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I am not Rifter but, as I said before, that video doesn't show any anger.  McCain sounded annoyed, at being asked the same question over and over, but I didn't see any anger.  If that is the best example, then they are reaching...a LOT.  No surprise the the report is on MSNBC.  They are to the left, what FOX News is to the right. 

Quite personally, unicus I would not necessarily call Fox right. they do seem to try very hard to be "fair and balanced" This can easily be demonstrated by watching shows like The Factor and Cavuto, in which they will conduct ONE interview and yet they will receive email from the partisans respectively accusing the host of being pro one side, pro the other on the SAME interview, say what you will, that tells me that the respective host is doing his job of trying to be tough, fair, balanced and not revealing of his personal stance. This is not to say they do not Commentators to the right, but they also have them on the left. Unlike say The View which is absolute model of fair and balanced.

Skip            
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Billy Video
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Quoting Daddy DVD:
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Two? I thought they had three. If I'm not mistaken there are also indepedents who can be voted on.


Theres over 10 parties, i mean who wouldnt want to vote for Charles Jay from the Boston Tea Party
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRico
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Hi Guys,

Brian - McCain's experience as a POW, would naturally make him more sensitive to the issues of torture, ergo his stance or outspoken remarks concerning GITMO. This sensitivity to POW's (treatment) says nothing, about him being less war minded. In fact speech after McCain speech he brings up WAR He jokes 'bomb bomb bomb Iran' while campaigning, He's telling, what he will do & warning citizens on the campaign trail WAR.

Watch This

Regarding the General's I believe the video mentioned one who was a Republican who switched sides, because of McCain. To get to the level of General in the military, is not an easy thing to do, it shows great dedication to country & honor; yet Brian comes along & dismisses, these 3 Generals as trite & trivial (as to there positions) this is coming from a liberal source, so it must be tainted. If anything Brian these general's should raise warning bells, make you concerned conservatives, more skeptical, so as to search harder for the real truth. Yes I see your 11 military supporters of McCain it's not a matter of score, for proof.

Take Care
Rico
If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz
 Last edited: by Rico
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