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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What's the title? |
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| Author |
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  | Berak | | Bibamus morieundum est! |
| Registered: May 10, 2007 |  Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting AESP_pres: Quote:
Quoting Merrik:
Quote:
I guess the two users who actually own the title will just have to suck it up. 
And this is really annoying when the user who had submited the change probably doesn't own the Canadian version of the dvd and just add it to his wanted or ordered tag because he and some other users are on a crusade... Now this I can agree with even more!  Someone needs to stop these en-massé contributions for titles from different localities, once and for all!  | | | Berak
It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 1,380 |
| | Posted: | | | | Its Ghosts of Mars in my collection (finnish release), the thing that bothers me is why theres only the back cover on the first post and not the front? |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
But rules are based on "everything as on screen" or "everything as on cover", to simplify. The problem is that credit makers, and DVD editors have certainly not any coherence preoccupation. I should even say they often search for originality, not speaking of errors or lack of care. So rules lead directly to incoherence in data each time we face an odd situation. Rules should tell what data we want, not how we find data. Then we could have something coherent in the database. But the rules do tell us what the software programmers want, and the rules must also tell us where to get the data. If the rules do not tell us where to get the data, then we could add data from anywhere, whether true or accurate. I have been told time and time again that this is dvd profiler, not movie profiler (although I think a leaning toward movies would help, but that is another topic). The core of our data must come from the DVD, or the packaging. That is the way the software was designed and intended to be used. I am not saying that there are not errors in the packaging and what not, but our job, for the most part, is not to interpret what the graphic designers meant or intended, it is to capture what data is actually represented. As long as we adhere to that, then the data will be accurate for what we are collecting, DVD's. And, just think about it, the programmers were smart enough to make sure that, for your own personal use, you can organize your movies and data how ever you choose. That is your choice. They have also gave us the ability to express our opinion in the forums. Now I know that changes sometimes are slow to come, and rule modifications are like pulling teeth without pain killer, but they are what they are. | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
I have been told time and time again that this is dvd profiler, not movie profiler... I do not know who seriously can think that dvdprofiler is made to collect DVD, not movies. With dvdprofiler, you can collect movies on DVDs, blu-rays, HD-DVDs, and now, with 3.6 custom collections, movies on laserdiscs, VHS, CD, and even ... reels of film. But dvdprofiler is unable to help you to collect data DVDs, WII DVDs, navigation systems DVDs, programs DVDs and any sort of DVD that do not contain movies... Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
The core of our data must come from the DVD, or the packaging. That is the way the software was designed and intended to be used.
Not at all. At the beginning, we had no rules, just guidelines, and at that time the "all from screen" or "all from the cover" didn't exist (at that time, we had even tools to import data from IMDb). Rules came several years later, to avoid ping-ponging. So it is not true to pretend now that the software was designed to take data from DVD or covers. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree that by the rules the possesive is part of the title, but personally I would never try to enforce it. But some people will undoubtly make it their business to do so...  | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,494 |
| | Posted: | | | | another point we ran with months and months ago,, that was overruled was the titles that are possessives such as "East Of Eden" (Warner Bros 1954)., This and other titles such as Mister Roberts/Rebel Without a Cause and other i.e. WB titles all have quotes around the Title on coverart as well as the Creditblock on Rear cover.. they have credit quotes as well.. trouble is it makes it very difficult to find the title as Invelos will not find part of a title but only first part of title . as well. , it also destroys your alphabetical list of Titles as the " will get first billing' .
I agree with Surfeur, this is dvd profiler not Movie profiler... . | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry | | | | Last edited: by widescreenforever |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote:
Its Ghosts of Mars in my collection (finnish release), the thing that bothers me is why theres only the back cover on the first post and not the front? He included only the back because the rules tell us to use the credit block to determin whether or not it is part of the title. That it was on the front cover, was not the issue. That it was part of the title, was. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: June 12, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
He included only the back because the rules tell us to use the credit block to determin whether or not it is part of the title. That it was on the front cover, was not the issue. That it was part of the title, was. The bullet on this starts (bold is mine): Quote:
Include possessives if the front cover includes them, and if they are verifiably part of the title. If quotes surround the title in the credit block (generally on the back cover), check whether the possessive is within the quotes. This would indicate the front cover title is part of the issue, wouldn't it? | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Berak: Quote:
Quoting AESP_pres:
Quote:
Quoting Merrik:
Quote:
I guess the two users who actually own the title will just have to suck it up.
And this is really annoying when the user who had submited the change probably doesn't own the Canadian version of the dvd and just add it to his wanted or ordered tag because he and some other users are on a crusade...
Now this I can agree with even more!
Someone needs to stop these en-massé contributions for titles from different localities, once and for all! I agree as well. It is one thing to correct cast and crew names, which do have an affect, through the CLT results, on every region. But to correct things that don't...title, overview, role, etc....just seems excessive and self serving. JMHO. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
The bullet on this starts (bold is mine):
Quote:
Include possessives if the front cover includes them, and if they are verifiably part of the title. If quotes surround the title in the credit block (generally on the back cover), check whether the possessive is within the quotes.
This would indicate the front cover title is part of the issue, wouldn't it? As I said, though not clearly enough, whether or not the possesive was on the cover wasn't in question. As with all John Carpenter films, at least all that I have seen, the possesive is there. The question was, is that possesive part of the title? That answer can only be found in the credit block. I may not agree with everything T!M does, but I don't believe he would have added the possesive if it weren't on the front cover. That, combined with what I said above, made it a non-issue for me. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
|  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I don't believe he would have added the possesive if it weren't on the front cover. Indeed I wouldn't, obviously. I'd also imagine that if anyone would try to do so, that such a person wouldn't be so stupid to subsequently start a public forumthread about that very contribution... It seemed so obvious that it never even occurred to me that anyone would question the fact that the possessive was on the front cover, which is why I didn't include it in my first post. As soon as someone asked about the front cover, I came back and posted it (a few posts down on the first page of this thread). Anyway: I'm still fairly baffled at the current 47 vs. 13 poll results. Remember: this poll wasn't asking for what we'd like, or what we'd use locally, but simply for what the title is under the current rules. That almost a quarter of the users apparently chooses to disregard a fairly simple rule remains a tad worrying to me. Especially since I'm seeing the same behaviour - people voting according to what they'd like instead of from a rules point of view - in the actual voting process. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Anyway: I'm still fairly baffled at the current 47 vs. 13 poll results. Remember: this poll wasn't asking for what we'd like, or what we'd use locally, but simply for what the title is under the current rules. That means that at least 13 users think that you interpret the rule incorectly to justify a personal agenda. Unless you consider that 22% of the voters are idiot and, frankly, this is quite insulting. Your interpretation is a personnal preference also (BTW it's weird that only 2 profiles in the database use his name before the real title, unless you plan to add the others to your collection to change them also). I've a biggest problem with the fact that an user can contribute important modifications to a title that he obviously doesn't own. This is certainly an important problem with DVDP that make the database less reliable... |
| | Registered: March 28, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
this poll wasn't asking for what we'd like, or what we'd use locally, but simply for what the title is under the current rules. No it isn't. It simply says: "What's the title?" And as far as I'm concerned, the title is "Ghost of Mars" so that's what I answered in the poll. Had the poll question been: "What's the title according to the rules?" I would've indeed answered "John Carpenter's Ghost of Mars." You may think I'm splitting hairs here, but it's a very important distinction. KM | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. | | | | Last edited: by Astrakan |
| | Registered: September 18, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,650 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Berak:
Quote:
Quoting AESP_pres:
Quote:
Quoting Merrik:
Quote:
I guess the two users who actually own the title will just have to suck it up.
And this is really annoying when the user who had submited the change probably doesn't own the Canadian version of the dvd and just add it to his wanted or ordered tag because he and some other users are on a crusade...
Now this I can agree with even more!
Someone needs to stop these en-massé contributions for titles from different localities, once and for all!
I agree as well. It is one thing to correct cast and crew names, which do have an affect, through the CLT results, on every region. But to correct things that don't...title, overview, role, etc....just seems excessive and self serving. JMHO. Bull. If the contribution is a good contribution and follows the rules then it's a good contribution whether one owns the disc or not (and whether one agrees with the god awful rules of the site or not). If it was something like audio options that require the actual disc I would be against it, but for title, overview, media companies that can be updated through the actual profile's scan, I say go for it. (Oh, and I hate having possessive's ) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Astrakan: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
this poll wasn't asking for what we'd like, or what we'd use locally, but simply for what the title is under the current rules.
No it isn't.
It simply says: "What's the title?"
And as far as I'm concerned, the title is "Ghost of Mars" so that's what I answered in the poll.
Had the poll question been: "What's the title according to the rules?" I would've indeed answered "John Carpenter's Ghost of Mars."
You may think I'm splitting hairs here, but it's a very important distinction.
KM Yes, the title of the thread does simply say: "What is the title?" If, however, you read the actual post T!M does say, "For the record - before the whole debate on possessives gets into full swing again - I'm just asking what the title for this profile should be under the current rules, not so much about what I or anyone else feels the title should ideally be..." | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Astrakan: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
this poll wasn't asking for what we'd like, or what we'd use locally, but simply for what the title is under the current rules.
No it isn't.
It simply says: "What's the title?"
And as far as I'm concerned, the title is "Ghost of Mars" so that's what I answered in the poll.
Had the poll question been: "What's the title according to the rules?" I would've indeed answered "John Carpenter's Ghost of Mars."
You may think I'm splitting hairs here, but it's a very important distinction.
KM Actually T!m was quite clear I thought. Quoting T!M's 1st post (bold by me): Quote:
[SNIP]
For the record - before the whole debate on possessives gets into full swing again - I'm just asking what the title for this profile should be under the current rules, not so much about what I or anyone else feels the title should ideally be... I really have no opinion on that - I just want a rule that I can follow consistently. I though we had that here, that this case was settled by the simple fact that the possessive is included between the quotes in the credits block. Am I mistaken? It's pretty cut and dry to me and I too am amazed at those who voted against the possessive, unless they mis-read Tim's post. I told myself I'm staying out of this but I have to say I find it a bit disturbing how much people seem to be against this change. It is 100% according to the rules. It is not being "forced" down anyone's throat. This is one rule that really is clear. Those who don't like it don't have to grab the update but T!m should be thanked for submitting it, as should anyone who submits anything according to the rules. Thanks T!M EDIT: DANG YOU MARTIAN AND YOUR FAST FINGERS  | | | | Last edited: by lyonsden5 |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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