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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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R.I.P.D. title question. |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting DoubleDownAgain:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I don't think the rule needs to be changed, people just need to use a little common sense in areas where the rules allow for it. In this case, they do. While the rule does say to take the title from the front cover, it does not tell us how to determine what on the cover is the actual title.
Using the title that started this thread as an example, people seem to know that 'Jeff Bridges' and 'Ryan Reynolds' are not part of the title. Why, then, is it so hard to accept that 'Rest In Peace Department' is also not part of the title? 
When should we ignore the rules and use 'common sense'?
Who said we should ignore the rules and use 'common sense'? What I said was, "we need to use a little common sense in areas where the rules allow for it.
The rule reads, "Use the title from the front cover." 'Jeff Bridges', 'Ryan Reynolds', 'R.I.P.D.' and 'Rest In Peace Department' are all on the front cover. Common sense tells me that the title is 'R.I.P.D.', so that is what I would use. Since the title I used was on the front cover, I have not ignored the rule.
I have used, what I believe to be common sense, but I have not ignored the rules. So says you. With only looking at the cover I'd say without a doubt that the title should read R.I.P.D.: Rest In Peace Department. Your choice to omit it is violating the rules IMO. I'd agree that R.I.P.D. should be the title of the film, but by the cover I'd disagree. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,330 |
| | Posted: | | | | As I said... if you show the cover to 2 or more people you can get 2 or more different answers to what people believe the title to be. All of which feels they are right per the rules.
None of these people are actually breaking the rule. They are following the rule using what they truly believe the title of the release to be. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
As I said... if you show the cover to 2 or more people you can get 2 or more different answers to what people believe the title to be. All of which feels they are right per the rules.
None of these people are actually breaking the rule. They are following the rule using what they truly believe the title of the release to be. I don't agree, but that's ok. I think the rules are pretty clear to include it, even though I don't think it's part of the title. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Of course I see a difference...just as you seem to see a difference between the title and the sub-title. If I didn't, my post wouldn't make much sense, now, would it? You compared actors' names to a sub-title (note the word "title" in there), implying that they were equivalent when evaluating what should be put into the title field, so I agree, your post didn't make much sense. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
As I said... if you show the cover to 2 or more people you can get 2 or more different answers to what people believe the title to be. All of which feels they are right per the rules.
None of these people are actually breaking the rule. They are following the rule using what they truly believe the title of the release to be.
I don't agree, but that's ok. I think the rules are pretty clear to include it, even though I don't think it's part of the title. If you don"t think it is part of the title, which is what the rules ask for, why in the world would you include it? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote:
So says you. No, not just me...I counted 6 other people in this thread who say the same thing. Quote:
With only looking at the cover I'd say without a doubt that the title should read R.I.P.D.: Rest In Peace Department. Your choice to omit it is violating the rules IMO. I'd agree that R.I.P.D. should be the title of the film, but by the cover I'd disagree. IMO, there are three things on the cover...actor names, the title and a sub-title. The rules tell me to enter only one of them, so that is all I am going to enter. You don't agree, and that's fine, but where does that leave us? I guess Charlie was right, the rule needs to be changed.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is a sample of titles just from my own collection where the subtitle (typically smaller print under the "title") on the cover is included after the "Title", using a colon ( : ) as a separator and they are entered in the online database this way. None of these titles are covered by the "episode" rule.
8MM: Eight Millimeter
2001: A Space Odyssey
2010: The Year We Make Contact
2016: Obama's America
Aguirre: The Wrath of God
Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy
The Bible: The Epic Miniseries
Cahill: United States Marshal
Clue: The Movie
Death Wish 4: The Crackdown
Dr. Strangelove: or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
Earth: Final Conflict
Exorcist II: The Heretic
Dominion: Prequel to the Exorcist
Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
D-Day: The Sixth of May
G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra
Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers
Iron Eagle III: Aces
The Lost World: Jurassic Park
K*19: The Widowmaker
Koyaanisqatis: Life out of Balance
Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World
Pocahontas II: Journey to a New World
Santa Clause III: The Escape Clause
Tommy: The Movie
Under Siege 2: Dark Territory
When We Left Earth: The NASA Missions
It seems to me that we have a de facto standard for entering titles which include a subtitle on the cover.
I'm really interested to know why this title would be handled differently from the vast majority of other titles already entered? We aren't ignoring the sub-titles for any of the titles listed above. Why do it for this one? | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting DoubleDownAgain:
Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
As I said... if you show the cover to 2 or more people you can get 2 or more different answers to what people believe the title to be. All of which feels they are right per the rules.
None of these people are actually breaking the rule. They are following the rule using what they truly believe the title of the release to be.
I don't agree, but that's ok. I think the rules are pretty clear to include it, even though I don't think it's part of the title.
If you don"t think it is part of the title, which is what the rules ask for, why in the world would you include it? Because that's what the rules say to do.  | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I guess Charlie was right, the rule needs to be changed. And the point would be? We can't even agree on how to look at the cover, how case-specific is the rule supposed to be then? Probably a list of all acceptable titles would have to do the trick? Of course this would mean some extra-work for Ken since he would have to take a deep look at all existing releases and decide which title seems to be adequate. Best would be if he, while he's on it, decides to eliminate the Title from the editable data-fields. This way the Title would have to be filled in by Invelos based on the provided coverscans. While we're on it, I suppose this would be a good idea for all disputed datafields, wouldn't it? | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
8MM: Eight Millimeter
2001: A Space Odyssey
2010: The Year We Make Contact
2016: Obama's America
Aguirre: The Wrath of God
Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy
The Bible: The Epic Miniseries
Cahill: United States Marshal
Clue: The Movie
Death Wish 4: The Crackdown
Dr. Strangelove: or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
Earth: Final Conflict
Exorcist II: The Heretic
Dominion: Prequel to the Exorcist
Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
D-Day: The Sixth of May
G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra
Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers
Iron Eagle III: Aces
The Lost World: Jurassic Park
K*19: The Widowmaker
Koyaanisqatis: Life out of Balance
Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World
Pocahontas II: Journey to a New World
Santa Clause III: The Escape Clause
Tommy: The Movie
Under Siege 2: Dark Territory
When We Left Earth: The NASA Missions
Out of all those that are listed, only 1 has any bearing on the discussion of the OP. 8MM, which has the same context as R.I.P.D, All the other ones are either true subtitles, or episodic decriptors The Martian is correct. The rules say Quote:
Use the title from the front cover It does not tell us what on the cover is the title, only a few do's and don'ts. Obviously we do not include actors or Media type headers. We also do not include any taglines or advertisements, even though those are also on some covers. So how do we truly decide what to use? Ken is correct, we can keep what we want in our own DB, but we still need a way of deciding what goes into the main DB. Maybe any questionable title gets put up for a vote, and that vote gets put in. I know that not everybody participates in the forums, but not everybody is worried to the depth we are. This will make some people upset (some will be upset either way). Just throwing idea at the wall... | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | AVP: Alien vs. Predator
AVP: Aliens vs. Predators: Requiem
these are logos AVP, and the title, just like MIB. These are ok with some who voted no with MIB so it is by personal preference on what is used for the DVD title and not by the rules for DVD titles.
another is B.T.K.: Bind Torture Kill where the B.T.K. is the only part used. | | | | Last edited: by ateo357 |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
All the other ones are either true subtitles, or episodic decriptors
Even if I would accept this statement to be true, the question still stands: How on earth is anyone (except you, of course) supposed to know the difference? What defines a "True Subtitle"? And how do we distinguish it from the faked? | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lewis_Prothero: Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
All the other ones are either true subtitles, or episodic decriptors
Even if I would accept this statement to be true, the question still stands:
How on earth is anyone (except you, of course) supposed to know the difference?
What defines a "True Subtitle"? And how do we distinguish it from the faked? Are you telling me, that you cannot see the difference between D-Day:The Sixth of May R.I.P.D.: Rest in Peace Department or MIB: Men in Black. Now who is being obtuse. And at least I gave an option of a way to help resolve. Charlie |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Quoting Lewis_Prothero:
Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
All the other ones are either true subtitles, or episodic decriptors
Even if I would accept this statement to be true, the question still stands:
How on earth is anyone (except you, of course) supposed to know the difference?
What defines a "True Subtitle"? And how do we distinguish it from the faked?
Are you telling me, that you cannot see the difference between
D-Day:The Sixth of May
R.I.P.D.: Rest in Peace Department or MIB: Men in Black. Yupp, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. And I would be really glad if you would enlighten me. But please make it clear and simple since, as you so gloriously found out, I'm somewhat obtuse at times. EDIT: Even worse, I found Hal's list to be quite a good example (except for the obvious sequels, of course) to show in how far your approach would cause inconsistencies throughout the database. The problem, once more, seems to be that people are mixing up Film-Titles and DVD-Titles. For DVDProfiler purposes we are using the DVD-Title, which doesn't necessarily (and for several reasons) has to be identical to the Film-Title. And the worst: Your approach is neither covered by the rules, which don't allow for omitting parts of the title (unless I'm missing something, in this case I would be glad too, if you could point me to the passage that allows us to do this), nor by the "one-of-ruling" regarding MIB, because in this case the title would have to be "Rest in Peace Deaprtment" only. So, Yes, call me obtuse. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 | | | | Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with Hal. Also relevant: E.T.: The Extra Terrestrial. Most people just call it "E.T.," but we put the full title in the DB anyway. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,640 |
| | Posted: | | | | Since it's fairly obvious that we cannot come to an agreement, and it's pretty much impossible to write rules that cover every possible variation, my suggestion would be as follows:
The first contributor enters whatever seems right to him (or her). The screeners decide if it's acceptable. Unless that entry is demonstrably wrong that's the title we live with in the main database. Those who disagree change the title locally.
That way there is no need for any further debates that will never come to a solution anyway. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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