Quoting surfeur51:

Quote:
Quoting Lewis_Prothero:

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But this doesn't come as a surprise and is just the result of two facts, which are:
...

Well I think you missed the main reason: We have a program with a design that hates variants, and rules that are made to multiply variants.
So we need a program change (everybody agrees, but Ken does not seem interested to do that), or a rules change so that variants are as fewer as possible (and for that we would need a consensus that we have not).

Not entirely true, the program handles variants by the common name and the rule address how to set the common name so whether the actual credited name for a person has multiple variants the program and the rules handle it.  It just not handle them in the way you (and may others) would like them to.

But for a rule change, that should be addressed in the rules forum and I think the main reason you do not see a consensus is that most of us would only like to see a rule change that has a definite benefit.  Looking at all factors including user friendliness and the fact that most users do not use the forums.  The benefits need to outweigh the cons in the complete picture.  So unless it can be presented in that fashion in a concise manner, addressing all the concerns and issues you will never see a consensus.

And my thinking about the Common Name Threads. Here the situation is much more difficult. It's not automatically updated as the CLT. You have to search it manually, perhaps you don't find it. And many contributions tell even today Common Name after Common Name Thread and the link, but this thread is from 2010. So most are never updated as it is a lot of work and we base on data that is very old and who knows if it is still actual.

But also here you can say, if everybody bases on them, even an old Thread, we get the same result everywhere and actors are credited everywhere the same way, if it is actual or not.

Fritz

Quoting emmeli:

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which thread is from 2010?

to find the common name is clt useless.

* to many errors inside.
* to many copy errors
* to many imdb clones

open a common name thread results in "i have check it ...". yes with clt or on own profile. but these data are not always right.

-> check this

but we go around in circles. the solution is, accept the rules and publish what you have. is the source for your contribution a copy from existing profil, is ok! but it must not be right, because it is not controlled via visual check from credit. i have to many imdb clones found if i download a profil for my new disc ...

First of all the CLT is not 100% useless, you you cannot always take it on it's face value. 

If a thread is old, see if it needs updating and add new titles for it and effectively make it active again.  I just did it recently with the Scott/Derek Hoxby thread.

In common name threads people check the screen credits unless they know their own local profiles are good.  And from my experience when they use their local profiles they state that.  Initialed names are a problem fro some people in determining the spaces.  However the filter does do some automatic changes to those

A.J.//Smith is filtered to be A./J./Smith[A.J. Smith] - The filter forces the common name to be A. J. Smith
A.J.//Smith[Albert Smith] is filtered to be A./J./Smith[Albert Smith] - The filter forces the common name to be A. J. Smith
A./J./Smith is filtered to be A./J./Smith
A./J./Smith[Albert Smith] is filtered to be A./J./Smith[Albert Smith]
A. J.//Smith is filtered to be A./J./Smith
A. J.//Smith[Albert Smith] is filtered to be A./J./Smith[Albert Smith]
A J//Smith is filtered to be A./J./Smith[A J Smith]
A J//Smith[Albert Smith] is filtered to be A./J./Smith[Albert Smith]


So those types of initialed variants are counted as the same resulting common name of A./J./Smith

I am not sure what you are getting at.  But if you have profiles that have incorrect data in them based on the rules then correct them.  People audit profiles all the time to get the data corrected.

The ultimate solution to the problem is a program change, however if there is a rule change that can show to have a result that is more beneficial and does not cause more work or conflict then that should be proposed in the rules forum.  The problem has been coming up with a consensus to a rule change that does just that. But even if a consensus is reached it is up to Ken to approve or disapprove it and add it to the rules.

Quoting emmeli:

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Quoting Scooter1836:

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I am not sure what you are getting at.  But if you have profiles that have incorrect data in them based on the rules then correct them.  People audit profiles all the time to get the data corrected.

the problem is, that many people say use clt to find a common/right name. but it is not allways the right way because wrong entries are present.

It's not "many people" that tell us to use the CLT but the contribution rules.

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To determine whether to enter the name directly as credited, or to use the "Credited As" field, use the Credit Lookup tool.

It is not necessary to document the source of the common name, outside the use of the CLT. If there is a dispute over whether the credit references the same person, documentation may be necessary. However, in most cases it is not required.

CLT results for your example:

Kalaadevi Ananda: 1 / 17
Ma Kalaadevi Ananda: 4 / 50
Marilyn Carbone: 44 / 212

I don't know what the real name for her is but the correct way to enter a "Kalaadevi Ananda"-credit would be:

Marilyn Carbone [Kalaadevi Ananda]

The fight we have is about Kalaadevi Ananda or Marilyn Carbone. It is the same person, in IMDb you find it as Kalaadevi Ananda AKA Marilyn Carbone. emmelie tells me IMDb is not a valid source.

CLT:
"Kalaadevi Ananda" is credited in the following 1 titles (17 profiles):
"Marilyn Carbone" is credited in the following 44 titles (212 profiles):

So we have the crosslink:

Marilyn Carbone [Kalaadevi Ananda]

When I click to Kalaadevi Ananda in Profiler I also get all the films she worked in with Marilyn Carbone. Do me this seems be absolutely correct, emmeli will enter it without crosslink as Kalaadevi Ananda as credited. But this helps not the database, I cannot see anymore in which films she did work, right?

Fritz

Quoting emmeli:

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how to get from "Kalaadevi Ananda" to "Marilyn Carbone"?

Some research would be fine.
She is the personal Make-up Artist for Susan Sarandon, so if in a film with Susan Sarandon suddenly a new name appears for her personal face-painter one might get suspicious and do some deeper research.

BTW: While IMDb as only source is not allowed it may very well be used to support changes (best in combination with other supporting sources).

Quoting emmeli:

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and why can i not find any source before?

??
Because you didn't look?

How would you get from Claudia Schiffer to Claudia Vaughn (Producer of Kick-Ass 2)?