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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What I would want... |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,678 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
And therefore you want to be able to write whatever you wish for an overview, then Pete might replace yours with his,, then Tim will replace that one, then you will replace that one and we have to watch you chase your tail. No thank you, surfeur. Not interested in your imaginary data which you want to pretend is real. No Skip, Re-read my initial post. The one no-no is that you cannot replace data with data of lesser "value" as defined by the desired part of the rules (the ideal data). So if Surfeur writes an overview without formatting and Pete replaces it with on with formatting, then going back non-formatted will not be permitted. Changes must always go towards the "True Believer" format, not away from it. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users. Gunnar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Gunnar:
I wasn't addressing you on that, YOU are absolutely correct. But that is not what surfeur wants. Take note that he specifically said that he has a scanned copy of the Overview as we all do,
He wants to be able to create his own Overview, which exists only in his imagination, whether it is the Overview with his corrected typos or whatever it is still imaginary data.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
He wants to be able to create his own Overview, which exists only in his imagination, whether it is the Overview with his corrected typos or whatever it is still imaginary data.
Though I wrote at least one hundred times what I want, you still go on with what you think I want, which has nothing in common with what I do want. | | | Images from movies |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Posts: 374 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
He wants to be able to create his own Overview, which exists only in his imagination, whether it is the Overview with his corrected typos or whatever it is still imaginary data. Skip I think it is not very helpful to speculate what other people want. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote: Quoting Mallrat:
Quote: I DO like the formatting feature (in fact I like it a lot), whether it's to be considered important or not.
I DO like headshots and photo galleries, and we have nothing in rules about that. If you read what I wrote, my main concern is to avoid to put in rules things that are not important for the structure of data : rules would be shorter and simplier.
If you like bold and italic in overviews, that's fine, the program allows to do what we want (except colors...). As for me, about overview exactly as on cover, I have that in the window just next the overview : the scan of back cover. I love the headshots and photogalleries myself... but there is a good reason they are not in the rules... they are not contributable fields... so there is no reason for rules. If they were contributable there would be rules for those fields too, I am sure. But bold and italic (just like the overview) is contributable... so that means there needs to be rules in place so that they are only contributed the way Invelos wants them contributed for their online database. So the comparison makes no sense. If we didn't have rules for things like bold and italic then people could upload anything they wanted concerning bold and italic... maybe someone likes the look of all bold overviews all the time... hey there is nothing against it in the rules... so why not? for that matter just maybe someone likes first word bold... second word italic... and so on... if no rules are against it no reason not to submit it. And I personally wouldn't want to have to vote on every whim someone can think of doing with them just because there is no rule in place for them... no thank you... give me the longer rules any day! | | | Pete | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote: no thank you... give me the longer rules any day! Rules as they are :OverviewsCopy the overview from the back of the DVD case exactly as written, including capitalization of words exactly as shown on the back of the case. Separate all paragraphs with a blank line. Use the Bold and/or Italic features for any words in the overview that are bold and/or italic as needed to match the case. Exceptions: If the entire overview uses an uppercase or lowercase font, enter the overview using standard capitalization rules for the locality of the DVD. Do not bold or italicize individual letters (as in the case of dropped capitals beginning a paragraph). Never include the following items in overviews: * Taglines * Reviews (unless they are incorporated into the text of the overview on the case) * Extra features * Hyperlinks or other HTML * Line-break hyphens Rules as they could be :OverviewsCopy exactly the text of the overview from the back of the DVD case. Use just text, keep formatting local. | | | Images from movies |
| Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,879 |
| Posted: | | | | Or, to simplify things but still keep the formatting - one could have the phrase read:
Overviews: Copy exactly the text of the overview from the back of the DVD case, using bold and italics to match the format of the case. -
However, simplifying to this level would not address the parts of the overview that some do not wish to include, such as reviews. Even as it stands now, there is some disagreement over when reviews are incorporated into the text of the overview and when they are not. Case in point, the back of the edition of Rain Man I have. The first paragraph is very review-esque, and is separated from the rest of the overview by a line of pictures. However it is the same font and same size and in every way to my eye appears to be part of the overview. A contribution of the overview to - in my mind, correctly - add this paragraph was voted equally yes and no (something like 13/13 or so) and rejected by the screeners. This is fine by me, but it points up that even as we have things now there is disagreement over what belongs in the overview. If we cut the rules to a minimal level, no matter the question of formatting, I believe it will end up in ping-pong contributions, as someone like me adds that paragraph and then someone else eliminates it, both of us believing we are doing what is correct for the overview. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -- Thorin Oakenshield | | | Last edited: by Danae Cassandra |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 5,734 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote: Rules as they could be :
Overviews Copy exactly the text of the overview from the back of the DVD case. Use just text, keep formatting local. "exactly", "the text of the overview" and "DVD" are redundant, formatting a matter of taste. Rules as they could be:OverviewsCopy from back of case. | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Danae Cassandra: Quote: Or, to simplify things but still keep the formatting - one could have the phrase read:
Overviews: Copy exactly the text of the overview from the back of the DVD case, using bold and italics to match the format of the case. -
However, simplifying to this level would not address the parts of the overview that some do not wish to include, such as reviews. Even as it stands now, there is some disagreement over when reviews are incorporated into the text of the overview and when they are not. Case in point, the back of the edition of Rain Man I have. The first paragraph is very review-esque, and is separated from the rest of the overview by a line of pictures. However it is the same font and same size and in every way to my eye appears to be part of the overview. A contribution of the overview to - in my mind, correctly - add this paragraph was voted equally yes and no (something like 13/13 or so) and rejected by the screeners. This is fine by me, but it points up that even as we have things now there is disagreement over what belongs in the overview. If we cut the rules to a minimal level, no matter the question of formatting, I believe it will end up in ping-pong contributions, as someone like me adds that paragraph and then someone else eliminates it, both of us believing we are doing what is correct for the overview. Exactly... the rules need to tell people exactly how a a field (any field) must be contributed. And cutting it down so short makes it impossible to do so. making too many questions pop up... giving us ping-pong contributions as we had before... and I for one do not want to see that. and for the matter of not contributing the formatting... that is something that is contributable... so Ken obviously wants it contributed... if he did not want it contributed he would have made the formatting local only... and he would not have put it in the rules in the first place. | | | Pete |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting sugarjoe: Quote: Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
He wants to be able to create his own Overview, which exists only in his imagination, whether it is the Overview with his corrected typos or whatever it is still imaginary data. Skip
I think it is not very helpful to speculate what other people want. Except that he has said it very clearly, repeatedly and constantly. And further we should all bow before because he thinks the formatting is hideous and only he knows how to handle everything according to the way he wants it done.......NOT. Yes, I am being sarcastic. He probably doesn't even understand the purpose for the Italics and/or Bolding in most cases, it serves a very specific purpose in English writing and is important, I don't expect him to know this since English is not his first language, there are many things about french writing which i do not know. BTW surfeur, I know exactly what you want and why you want it. You are unwilling to accept the way profiler does things, you want things to be done YOUR way, thus far you have made a wise choice and chosen the highway. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 168 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbb: Quote: Quoting surfeur51:
Quote: Rules as they could be :
Overviews Copy exactly the text of the overview from the back of the DVD case. Use just text, keep formatting local. "exactly", "the text of the overview" and "DVD" are redundant, formatting a matter of taste.
Rules as they could be:
Overviews Copy from back of case. Copy what from back? Taglines, reviews, fine print? It's just this sort of ambiguity that demands that the rules be as specific as possible (and thus be comprised of such a high word count) |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,635 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting MtnMike: Quote: Quoting bbbbb:
Quote: Quoting surfeur51:
Quote: Rules as they could be :
Overviews Copy exactly the text of the overview from the back of the DVD case. Use just text, keep formatting local. "exactly", "the text of the overview" and "DVD" are redundant, formatting a matter of taste.
Rules as they could be:
Overviews Copy from back of case.
Copy what from back? Taglines, reviews, fine print? It's just this sort of ambiguity that demands that the rules be as specific as possible (and thus be comprised of such a high word count) And what if there is no Overview on the back? Leave it blank? We have world renowned word parsers in this community as well as frustrated would-be lawyers. What seems to be "simple" to you, is fertile ground for interpretation, lack of clarity and endless arguments. Trust me. Writing Rules that everyone will comprehend and implement uniformly is in no way as "simple" as you seem to think! | | | Hal |
| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,018 |
| Posted: | | | | Exactly. It's a craft of its own, especially if you have to cater to an international group ranging from newbies to highly experienced users. For comparison: try writing a user manual that people actually will and can use. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,436 |
| Posted: | | | | Some of the suggestions, while made with good intent, are bringing us way too close to the original Guidelines, which is really not where we want to be again (despite voting process). I still have the old guidelines on my website somewhere, in case there are curious minds of what things looked like almost 10 years ago... | | | Achim [諾亞信; Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan. Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting ya_shin: Quote: Some of the suggestions, while made with good intent, are bringing us way too close to the original Guidelines, which is really not where we want to be again (despite voting process).
I still have the old guidelines on my website somewhere, in case there are curious minds of what things looked like almost 10 years ago... Exactly. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: April 7, 2007 | Posts: 357 |
| Posted: | | | | All of the rules could be modified by ... or otherwise in exceptional cases that which is acceptable to the screeners.
This of course already exisits because if it's in it's in and they have the final say, but it could be subject to lot's of subsequent submissions. If that sentence were added earlier contribution notes could make clear they were seeking an exception to the letter of the rules. The voters could then in all good conscience vote with what they thought made sense even if it was against the rules and that could guide the screeners, the contributor would already have said it was against the rules. This is not anarchy this is common sense. Some examples already in the system are some cover/logo issues where taking the title exactly from the cover has caused all kind of battles and some of the few ping pong switches that some are paranoid about. I am not saying this would be common and I am not saying this definitely would stop any arguments but it would allow an argument that it it's against the rules but clearly the rules can't anticipate every posssibility and, in this case, they never intended to prevent this. Some examples I can think of are If you have no overview you can already make up a short synopsis of your own and upload it to the on-line so it accepts that this is preferable to no data there. But what if the overview is as useless as no overview.
What if you have "For the first time on DVD the Godfather Trilogy" is that really any use as an Overview? Since we only profile the first release of any URN and the title would tell us what it is it may as well be blank. Wouldn't it be better if a synopsis was substituted? If that one sentence were added then contribuition notes could say from the cover "For the first time on DVD the Godfather Trilogy" this adds nothing to the profile short synopsis appended" Just as you can append an episode list for TV series. Or what about something that effects all of us and something I have already changed locally where I can. At the moment if we have the stars in the opening credits and then a different listing alphabetical, order of appearance etc in the end credits we take that order if it includes the stars, if it doesn't then we can put them back at the top again. This makes the program and the data less useful in many cases if you use it for lay people to browse to choose a film as if it's a film they don't know they would like to know who stars in it.
Incidentally this doesn't replace the real data with what I want blah blah blah it replaces useless misleading or poor data with data which, in the opinion of the screeners, aided by the owners of the disks adds value to the profile.
I klnow I have done this before but can I quote from Douglas Bader when he said "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.” | | | Last edited: by Graveworm |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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