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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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Bullying |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
All this blocking and wishes for other means of policing things smacks of political correctness, and nothing good comes from going down that path. In fact, if you go far enough down that road you end up with police states and dictators. I rather somebody had the testicular fortitude to call a bastard to my face than hide behind some PC block. That's the coward's way of dealing with things. It's a question of how far you go down this path. - Where does anarchy end and civilization start? Where the police state and where dictation? For me, setting up rules does not imply dictation but it's a way towards civilization... Regards, AA | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well said, AA
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 17, 2007 | | Posts: 853 |
| | Posted: | | | | As usual the topic has spun out of control and become more about cat post and picking on people. I am not saying the people catching the barbs don't deserve it, but I am saying the original post said not to name names. As much as I disagree with you and with as rude as you can be, for that Skip, even though you cannot or will not say it to anyone else, I am sorry. People have said what happens in the forums is not bullying. Well, that is just not true. When someone uses their abilities to put you down and put you "in your place" it is bullying. The difference is in person you can smack a bully in the mouth and usually they will go away. Here if you insult or fight back against one the "bullies" they get their friends to come and taunt and berate you as well. In the American system of democracy my rights end where your nose begins. We have police to ensure that someone bigger and stronger doesn't force their will on the weak, whether that is physically or mentally. Moderators would simply do the same thing. It would provide defense for those unable to defend themselves. In my opinion it is never okay to berate or belittle someone because you know something they do not or you are just more intelligent then they are. We are a society made up from many different diverse groups and we need to get along, notice I did not say like each other. There can be a huge difference between like and respect. I can name many people I do not like but respect. We are all here for the EXACT same reason, we all LOVE DVD's. They are a passion for us and in some cases an obsession. If we do not want to go the way of moderators I would suggest that whomever starts a topic keeps an eye on it and when someone gets out of line send them mail or post in the forum this is inappropriate and if you have nothing constructive to add please do not post further comments. This should only be done by the starter of the topic not everyone who thinks they have the right to tell someone to shut up. As for this whole apology thing, anyone who believes that certain individuals on here could say the worlds sincerely without their head exploding, I have some ocean front property in Arizona I am selling and I am sure many other people on here have a bridge they do not want. My point is as follows. Growing a thicker skin is not the solution, but neither is educating the 4 horseman. If everyone will censor themselves and be good members of our community everything will be well with our world. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rander: Quote:
I may be blessed, but in the forums and usenet-groups I usually participate in, that kind of behaviour is simply not accepted - and most important of all: It doesn't occur!
That seems to be a hen-egg problem. Quote:
It isn't accepted here either, but untill Ken says it isn't, some people will still think it is and practise it. Moderators? I don't think these specific individuals will respect them - "they're not Ken!"
So, unfortunately I think that there isn't really anything anyone can do before Ken decides to get involved and take action to solve it. Even more unfortunately, I'm afraid that this will never happen... The fact: Kens action here - or lack of action - representing the provider of this forum makes the tone and behavour accepted.  Regards, AA | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Although really, should Ken be put in this kind of position in the first place?
We're all meant to be adults, and should be able to regulate ourselves without an authority figure overseeing our behaviour. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Although really, should Ken be put in this kind of position in the first place?
We're all meant to be adults, and should be able to regulate ourselves without an authority figure overseeing our behaviour. I'm afraid, I can't answer this question without being or at least being interpreted offensive. My opinion on this - already stated somewhere before: Although we are meant to be adults and our driving licensed should prove that  we tend to be selfish - like most people do. Out of this we tend to have the right view of anything which tends to end up in judging about others. Judging leads to... ... and the end of all that would be a state I call anarchy. The only way to get out of this - I'm tempted to call it evolutionary - process is to set up rules. And if these are not obeyed out of respect, moral, etc. set up some kind of authority to control it. The rules exist. The authority is Invelos. No control and/or consequences are visible for me. I'd blame the authority not to enforce the rules... What I haven't said before: I don't think blocking dozens of users for the rest of their lives is a solution. But I think although we are presumed to be adults, we (me included) need some sort of education some times to stay civilized. Ordinary users pointing on issues seem to be too less for this community. I'll welcome any other trial to get this forum out of anarchy, since I'm interested in the base (the program on one hand, the DVD Database on another and most of the participating users on a third hand...). Regards, AA | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
|  | johnd | | Evening, poetry lovers. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 298 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting AiAustria: Quote:
My opinion on this - already stated somewhere before: Although we are meant to be adults and our driving licensed should prove that we tend to be selfish - like most people do. Out of this we tend to have the right view of anything which tends to end up in judging about others. Judging leads to... ... and the end of all that would be a state I call anarchy.
The only way to get out of this - I'm tempted to call it evolutionary - process is to set up rules. And if these are not obeyed out of respect, moral, etc. set up some kind of authority to control it.
The rules exist. The authority is Invelos. No control and/or consequences are visible for me. I'd blame the authority not to enforce the rules... One of the problems with Internet communication is that, for a significant number of people, it is just anarchy. They feel they are not required to conform to societal mores, and express themselves in ways that overstep what would be considered acceptable in face-to-face discussions. In fact, I have seen comments here that, if they were uttered face-to-face, would be chargeable as assault! Hardly a good situation. There are also a number of people that refuse to accept that there might be alternative views on a subject, and simply don't want to know or listen to them. Comments such as: "Again, XXXXX I don't wish to discuss it, because the minds here are not open, so i would be merely wasting my time trying to make it understandable. All I will say is the focus is ALL wrong." (name redacted). are worrying as they indicate a staggering lack of understanding of the processes in these forums. It is very much the "everybody is wrong except me" attitude. This means that the person can never participate in a discussion fully because all discussions involve the presentation of differing views, and an attitude like that means that the person cannot entertain different views, let alone be flexible enough to accept them. |
| | Registered: July 7, 2007 |  Posts: 284 |
| | Posted: | | | | I've been on the World of Warcraft Unofficial forums for some time. Let me tell you: this forum is neutered into tameness   But seriously, it's all a matter of perception in most cases (calling names is ofc without debate plain wrong) because forums lack all kinds of communcation whic hare present in real life (bodylanguage, facial expressions etc). that's what makes it all so hard to be "yourself" and still not hurt anyones feelings, considering all those nationalities and races. It's not an excuse and I'm not saying it cannot be done but it is not that easy at all and it definitely is a learning process. I do not believe that the majority of perceived bullying was intended that way by the bully and feedback should help us all get along. After all, we are all grown upd I assume (well, most of us anyway  ) | | | My DVD's
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive? |
| | johnd | | Evening, poetry lovers. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 298 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RaymondG: Quote:
I do not believe that the majority of perceived bullying was intended that way by the bully and feedback should help us all get along. It should, but that learning experience requires a recognition at the start that there is a problem. While people continue to deny that there is a problem, they will never learn. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,652 |
| | Posted: | | | | I posted the following in the thread about the post counts: Quoting Caroline: Quote:
Quoting poster:
Quote:
I am not interested in examining my own behavior, at least until such time as I start seeing more adult and intelligent behavior generally. I am also quite amused at those who so easily sit in judgement of another,and it all usually revolves around I want you to behave the way I deem appropriate.
You know, this is the attitude that seems to be causing the problems of bullying around here. This poster is saying in as many words that he is not going to change until others do so, but others are unlikely to change unless you start by setting the example.
Each one of us should do the same and that should go a long way towards stopping the bullying around here.
I generally take most of what I read in the forums as a huge joke but some of it is way below the belt and name calling doesn't get you anywhere! (Now I sound just like my mother!   )
Still, and I am not picking on you poster - I am just using your post (I have seen others just like it!!!   ), if we ALL make the effort to be less confrontational we would have a much nicer forum! I hope that this gets the point across without offending anyone as that is not my intention.  I used this post as the reference as it was convenient, but as I mentioned, I have seen quite a few others make similar comments in the these threads and I don't think that will foster good opinions, nor will it stop the bullying. You (collectively) cannot expect change to occur unless you are first willing to make the change yourself. Any other attitude is totally selfish and will just make the situation worse. It makes it look like you are a willful child and nothing more! | | | <---------Mithrandir, Laverne and Shirley
Caroline |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Caroline:
I have tried unilaterally numerous times. We have several users who just flat refuse.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RaymondG: Quote:
I've been on the World of Warcraft Unofficial forums for some time. Let me tell you: this forum is neutered into tameness
But seriously, it's all a matter of perception in most cases (calling names is ofc without debate plain wrong) because forums lack all kinds of communcation whic hare present in real life (bodylanguage, facial expressions etc). that's what makes it all so hard to be "yourself" and still not hurt anyones feelings, considering all those nationalities and races. It's not an excuse and I'm not saying it cannot be done but it is not that easy at all and it definitely is a learning process. I do not believe that the majority of perceived bullying was intended that way by the bully and feedback should help us all get along. After all, we are all grown upd I assume (well, most of us anyway ) There is already an example of this working on another thread (can't remember which one). Martin posted a video which Ken found insulting. This was done without any malice, and once it was explained to Martin that it had offended Ken, he apologised. An apology which Ken accepted immediately. Both acting like adults, defusing quickly what could have ended up becoming a slanging match. So we can see that it works, we'll just have to see if the users on here are willing to act like adults or want to continue behaving like toddlers! | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
| | Registered: April 8, 2007 | | Posts: 1,057 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hi Guys,
For those of you who make sarcastic bullying comments to strangers, ask yourself before you post, would I make that statement to a persons face! I do not believe, bullies would make nasty statements, to people on the street. But for some reason hiding behind a forum somehow makes it okay. Kind of like road rage, the bully gets to hide behind the car (protected) by 2000 lbs of steal, and flip people off. Take that same road rage individual & replace the car with a shopping cart, and he becomes a well behaved citizen. I'll bet that most of the nasty comments/bullying is done by men, & that the level of frustration, by the bullier is very low, & with frustration comes the nasty remarks. How about this, when someone makes a nasty/bullying/ bad taste post, I think we should PM the offender, and privately admonish the offender. Sometimes the bully, does not think he's done anything wrong. With a constant slew of remiders, to the offender, perhaps they will get the message, and with luck change.
Take Care
Rico | | | If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Caroline: Quote:
I posted the following in the thread about the post counts:
...
Any other attitude is totally selfish and will just make the situation worse. It makes it look like you are a willful child and nothing more! I think, that's the problem. Some of are simply not interested in discussion or bettering the situation. They are interested only in themselves... The thing which I can't understand: What do these guys get out of this behaviour. Normally human beings tend to do only things which they can get out some profit out of. I can't see any... ?? Regards, AA | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rico: Quote:
Hi Guys,
For those of you who make sarcastic bullying comments to strangers, ask yourself before you post, would I make that statement to a persons face! I do not believe, bullies would make nasty statements, to people on the street. But for some reason hiding behind a forum somehow makes it okay. Kind of like road rage, the bully gets to hide behind the car (protected) by 2000 lbs of steal, and flip people off. Take that same road rage individual & replace the car with a shopping cart, and he becomes a well behaved citizen. I'll bet that most of the nasty comments/bullying is done by men, & that the level of frustration, by the bullier is very low, & with frustration comes the nasty remarks. How about this, when someone makes a nasty/bullying/ bad taste post, I think we should PM the offender, and privately admonish the offender. Sometimes the bully, does not think he's done anything wrong. With a constant slew of remiders, to the offender, perhaps they will get the message, and with luck change.
Take Care
Rico I've seen your example. It was really bad luck. But I don't see the real problem in sarcasm or jokes. - This forms of communication can be flagged with emoticons and from my point of view this should be allowed. There has to be some kind of respect and understanding, and sometimes there are to be appolgies. Yes, but this is communication. The other problems described in this thread tend to go in another direction: refusing to communicate - there seems to be no space left for other opinions or even other members of this community; or even for a community. Regards, AA | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
| | Registered: March 23, 2007 | | Posts: 317 |
| | Posted: | | | | You know, it's been interesting to see who has and who has not made posts in the last few days that in someway seem influenced by this thread. I've seen a few people posting extremely carefully (e.g. Caroline's post on this page) and one or two apologies which I personally didn't see a need for. Not wanting to put down their excellent intentions, but that level of care and consideration is far beyond the call of duty, and I think it's necessary to stress that I doubt anyone is expecting the forums to be quite so considerate (just an attempt to head off any "what you want is excessive" comments). What is more striking to me is the number of missed opportunities. For example, back on page four of this thread, I chose a thread and cited some examples of where I think the line had been crossed. Whilst certainly not expected, wouldn't it have wonderful if some of those people posted that what they said was indeed wrong and apologize for it? Of course, they may not be reading, may be embarrassed, may think that I am wrong, etc., but it would have been wonderful if it HAD happened. It certainly would have improved my faith and made them much bigger (wo)men in my eyes (figuratively speaking that is - please no Photoshop jobs on the 'Behind the Avatar' thread  ). I don't think that PMing is the right idea. The problem with PMing is that the recipient can always claim that it is they who are being bullied and singled out and does nothing to alleviate any offense taken (unless the offender publicly apologizes). A more public response demonstrates that it is not acceptable, and it's harder to claim that it's victimization unless others view the berating and comment negatively on it. I think we should let this thread simmer for a couple more days, and then I like northbloke's suggestion a few pages back about polling for a common statement of dissatisfaction for unacceptable posts. Any more suggestions for that would be welcome. Stuart | | | This is a sig... ... ... yay...
Don't understand? Maybe DVDProfilerWiki.org does! |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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