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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Then you don't understand the point I'm making. I said nothing about attacking anyone. I am referring to the fact that even when you make a point that is legitimate people can get offended. If making your point offends a large group (not just one or two overly sensitive users), then I would ask if there is a less offensive way to make the same point. Or if the point truly needs to be made in the first place. This is a forum for DVD Profiler, DVD collecting, and people who love movies (and TV series Pete  ). What points are so important to make that large groups of people find themselves offended? It's been my observation that most of the these points have nothing to do with the reason why this forum exists to begin with. They usually come up about 10-15 pages into a thread that no longer has much to do at all with the original topic at all. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,436 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
The point should be whether or not the post in question MAKES a legitimate point, and if it does so then whether or not someone is offended is immaterial.
"Making a point" while belittling , name-calling, slamming or otherwise being rude to others on this forum will earn a negative vote from me regardless of "your point".
No one said that a negative mark makes the post in question illegitimate.
Then you don't understand the point I'm making. I said nothing about attacking anyone. I am referring to the fact that even when you make a point that is legitimate people can get offended. If the point IS a legitimate point and someone takes offense at it, that doesn't negate the point being made, nor should it. If you give a negative to someone making a legit point, that says more about you than it does them. Since it is not about attacking someone, are you saying it would be bad to give a negative vote to a legitimate point just because I disagree with it? In that case I entirely agree and such behavior is supposedly covered by the way Ken operates the system. General use of offensive language, which is not directed at any other person, can be offensive to some people. Where a point is being made but with a bit of foul language thrown in for good measure... That is indeed a thin line and people just taking offense by the language and therefore not looking at the core of the post may appear trying to censor the poster. In this case I can simply refer to mark's post above mine... I must say that I have read my share of such post and ultimately decided to ignore them (I have nothing against use of foul language per se and use it myself, but in a civil discussion it should be possible to adjust ones language accordingly. | | | Achim [諾亞信； Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am greatly amused since some of the most vocal in this thread do NOT have clean hands themselves yet they persit in pointing fingers at others. i will say the same thing I said before this started. BEFORE you start pointing fingersand making some the very near offensive remarks i have seen in this thread...look to your own house and your behavior FIRST. And no I am NOT going to point individuals that I might refer to, just take the advice, this thread has is simply another form of bashing. I am still seeing a lot of clearly agenda or vendetta driven voting. Which I I don't know whether I find funny, distasteful or pathetic. But it is VERY obvious, I would almost bet I know who is involved as well.  Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Never said i didn't understand the issue, Unicus, and as usual you missed the point of the whole discussion if you really believe it was about censorship per se.
Skip  Again you make an assumption that I was talking about you. You are not the only person who has thrown out the 'censorship' card. I made a general comment aimed at Mark's general statement about censorship. If you read anything more into that, it was far too much. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
No Paul that some of us feel that they are qualified to sit in judgement of another. You forget who gewts called the names around here, including by YOU, sir.. That is why I shake my head and say what a pity, that is also why I say I refuse to sit in judgement of ANY user including you or some of our other hypocritical friends. If you don't think you have insulted me more than one time, Paul, i strongly recommend you go look at your posts AGAIN, you have done it any number of times. Now I wish NOIT to have this discussion any further, it is an utter waste of time.
Skip  Just because people judge the post it doesn't mean they are judging the person. If I look at a post and see that it demeans another person or is racist then I will mark that post negatively. And if I did this I would be passing comment on that post alone. No matter what sort of point it was trying to make (valid or otherwise), this would have been superseded by the way that it was being made. | | | | Paul |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
The point should be whether or not the post in question MAKES a legitimate point, and if it does so then whether or not someone is offended is immaterial.
"Making a point" while belittling , name-calling, slamming or otherwise being rude to others on this forum will earn a negative vote from me regardless of "your point".
No one said that a negative mark makes the post in question illegitimate.
Then you don't understand the point I'm making. I said nothing about attacking anyone. I am referring to the fact that even when you make a point that is legitimate people can get offended. If the point IS a legitimate point and someone takes offense at it, that doesn't negate the point being made, nor should it. If you give a negative to someone making a legit point, that says more about you than it does them.
And clearly you did not understand what I said.
A point can be perfectly legitimate but delivered in a totally unacceptable manner. A negative mark would be issued for the unacceptable delivery manner not because the point is "legit".
Just because a point is legitimate does not mean that you have free reign to offend people while delivering it. If you do, then you can expect to be "marked" accordingly. You're being deliberately obtuse, right? I didn't say anything about the MANNER IN WHICH THE POST IS WRITTEN being offensive -- you threw that in there on your own. Your response is, in fact, a perfect text book example of just what I am talking about. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Then you don't understand the point I'm making. I said nothing about attacking anyone. I am referring to the fact that even when you make a point that is legitimate people can get offended.
If making your point offends a large group (not just one or two overly sensitive users), then I would ask if there is a less offensive way to make the same point. Or if the point truly needs to be made in the first place. This is a forum for DVD Profiler, DVD collecting, and people who love movies (and TV series Pete ). What points are so important to make that large groups of people find themselves offended? It's been my observation that most of the these points have nothing to do with the reason why this forum exists to begin with. They usually come up about 10-15 pages into a thread that no longer has much to do at all with the original topic at all. Come on, Mark, I'm not trying to quantify anything by how many of this or that group might get offended. I am simply pointing out that this isn't quite as cut and dried as some seem to think. We can either sit around like a bunch of old blue haired ladies at a society tea and make vacuous statements about nothing to each other to avoid offense, or we can act like adults and accept the fact that sometimes no matter how hard you try to avoid offending someone, it happens. The true sign of maturity is how you RESPOND in such cases, more than the original remark. Far too many respond as if their knee just slammed into their nose, and then its Katie, bar the door! And yes, this is a hobby, and it should be fun. But, like most hobbies, people have differing degrees of involvement, and you never know what might set somebody off. So, EVERY discussion is a potential mine field. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,436 |
| | Posted: | | | | John, I am really trying hard to understand your point. You have pointed out so far that it is not about direct attacks. You also pointed out that it is not about the manner in which a post is written. That leaves very little room as to what that could actually be about... (and I can't think of it).
As I said, Ken has pointed out the the system will not allow for users to simply vote negatively on something they disagree with.
Years ago we used to have heated debates on this forum without things getting overly personal. I am confident that once the system has settled in people will step of the egg shells and negative vote will only be handed out to posts that truly deserve it (or otherwise revoked by Ken). | | | Achim [諾亞信； Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| | Registered: March 23, 2007 | | Posts: 317 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
I think we are using to different definitions of political correctness. PC is an attitude as much as a tool of subverting someone's will. It is a term that originated here in the US and it is used to indicate that pressure to do things a certain way (the way the powers that be want it done) or to say a certain thing regardless of what you know to be true and proper is being used. Take affirmative action for example. According to the doctrine of affirmative action, members of minority groups receive prefential treatment over the majority if both are equal otherwise. The politically correct version of affirmative action is that minorities always get preference over the majority even if they don't qualify. Then, when they have problems because they are trying to do a job they don't qualify for, one doesn't dare point out that it was affirmative action that put them in that position to start with.
Political Correctness is wrong, no matter what it is dealing with, or where one encounters it. It is an insidious tool used by those whose only goal is to achieve their own ends at the expense of everybody else. There is no good politically correct argument, because in order for it to work, somebody else has to lose something in the bargain. Well, I guess I was being a bit fast and loose with the definition (alright, very fast and loose). I think political correctness is one of those terms that is used to mean a lot of not very much (if you get my meaning). I actually worked for five years funding education for 'learners with learning difficulties and/or disabilities' - about as PC heavy an area as you're going to get! As you might expect, educating them is significantly more expensive than a fully able student, so it would be easy to say that the decision to pay more is a politically correct one rather than based upon real returns of investment. It's not easy to say that this 'affirmative action' (which it is) should be stopped, but if you sacrificed these benefits for the minority, the majority would benefit. It would be a brave man that scrapped it, although their argument of benefit for the majority would be undeniably correct. And even if their argument is sound, it doesn't mean that they are 'right' in ending the funding. Ultimately, 'politically correct' is just a label, used more often than not to put an opposing argument down. In the case above, calling 'scrap-man' politically incorrect could be used to avoid the debate despite his very valid points (which is the point I believe you're trying to make). Thing is, most people would agree that although logic dictates he is correct, they want the politically correct solution. Anyway, this is all getting further an further from the relevance of the thread, so I'm going to stop. Stuart | | | This is a sig... ... ... yay...
Don't understand? Maybe DVDProfilerWiki.org does! |
| | Registered: March 23, 2007 | | Posts: 317 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I am greatly amused since some of the most vocal in this thread do NOT have clean hands themselves yet they persit in pointing fingers at others. i will say the same thing I said before this started. BEFORE you start pointing fingersand making some the very near offensive remarks i have seen in this thread...look to your own house and your behavior FIRST. And no I am NOT going to point individuals that I might refer to, just take the advice, this thread has is simply another form of bashing.
I am still seeing a lot of clearly agenda or vendetta driven voting. Which I I don't know whether I find funny, distasteful or pathetic. But it is VERY obvious, I would almost bet I know who is involved as well.
Skip I'm quite confused by this post. I've just read the thread again and I don't see anything in the way of 'finger pointing', 'near offensive remarks', or 'bashing'. It all seems quite concept driven to me. I wonder if you're looking for something that may not be there (an example of 'people can take offense at anything?'). I'm also at a loss for 'vendetta driven voting'. I've not been looking for it specifically, but I have been taking an interest. I've seen a lot of people getting stars as I might expect. Okay, some of them have been accused of being involved in battle at times, but I think that the good (forum) contributions are clear to see and I've not seen any bad since the new system. You say it's very obvious... am I alone in not seeing it? Stuart | | | This is a sig... ... ... yay...
Don't understand? Maybe DVDProfilerWiki.org does! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
The true sign of maturity is how you RESPOND in such cases, more than the original remark.
. In other words, I am accountable for how I react to being offended, but you are not accountable for having offended me in the first place. Fascinating. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: April 8, 2007 | | Posts: 1,057 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hi Guys, Or should I say Hi Guys & Gal's to be pc correct & avoid a negative star? Quote:
Come on, Mark, I'm not trying to quantify anything by how many of this or that group might get offended. I am simply pointing out that this isn't quite as cut and dried as some seem to think. We can either sit around like a bunch of old blue haired ladies at a society tea and make vacuous statements about nothing to each other to avoid offense, or we can act like adults and accept the fact that sometimes no matter how hard you try to avoid offending someone, it happens. The true sign of maturity is how you RESPOND in such cases, more than the original remark. Far too many respond as if their knee just slammed into their nose, and then its Katie, bar the door!
And yes, this is a hobby, and it should be fun. But, like most hobbies, people have differing degrees of involvement, and you never know what might set somebody off. So, EVERY discussion is a potential mine field.
John you earned a positive star from me, well said. I don't read every post, but for the most part nothing I've seen (so far) is so offensive that it should earn negative points. I think it's warranted to take a look at how miss behavior occurs (usually over several posts). 1. OP has strong belief in his/her post content. 2. Comment to OP is interrupted, as a slap, demeaning etc. 3. OP defends position, may snipe back vicious circle now completed & now has the potential to heat up. 4. Other posters join in, sides are seen to be taken. 5. Chaos, thread loses meaning. Steps 2-5 negative stars awarded. Thread destruction, still occurs, #1 & 2 not calmed by negative stars. #1 & 2 are now leery of one another & ready to settle a score. Forums with moderators usually <snip> delete & warn, early like step #2 way before thread destruction. #1 & 2 may still dislike each other & are ready to tangle, but they know they can't get away with it, when moderated. Sometimes you just need a cop or moderator policing the board. Or try going to work & be productive via voting, sometimes you need a boss. Take Care Rico | | | If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz | | | | Last edited: by Rico |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
The true sign of maturity is how you RESPOND in such cases, more than the original remark.
.
In other words, I am accountable for how I react to being offended, but you are not accountable for having offended me in the first place.
Fascinating. You seem to take great delight in deliberately miscontruing what I've said. So, I will no longer continue this discussion with you. It's patently obvious you've made up your mind and nothing will change it. Have a nice day. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 17,804 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quote:
Quoting Rico:
John you earned a positive star from me, well said.
I don't read every post, but for the most part nothing I've seen (so far) is so offensive that it should earn negative points. Rico, well said. I do not see any posting in this thread worth a negative vote as well. This of course can only be my (and others) very personal point of view because everybody has a different pain barrier concerning insults. But who can or will open-minded presume to judge what is offensive and what is not? IMHO it's sometimes better to work only with positive feedbacks. So Ken, please keep the green ones and remove the red ones  | | | | Thorsten | | | | Last edited: by kahless |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kahless: Quote:
Quote:
Quoting Rico:
John you earned a positive star from me, well said.
I don't read every post, but for the most part nothing I've seen (so far) is so offensive that it should earn negative points.
Rico, well said. I do not see any posting in this thread worth a negative vote as well. This of course can only be my (and others) very personal point of view because everybody has a different pain barrier concerning insults. But who can or will open-minded presume to judge what is offensive and what is not? IMHO it's sometimes better to work only with positive feedbacks. So Ken, please keep the green ones and remove the red ones Rico: I agree with you, my Klingon friend.  But you would be amazed at the vendetta/agenda voting...trust me. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Rico:
I agree with you, my Klingon friend. But you would be amazed at the vendetta/agenda voting...trust me. I might be missing something, but what are you basing this on? Votes are private. You can't see who gave you a negative vote and I am quite sure that Ken isn't talking so...  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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