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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 4 5 6 7 8 ...10  Previous   Next
Parsing chinese names, example Gong (Family name) Li (given name)
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registranttarantino
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 131
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:

That's interesting.
After having thought about it, I have come to agree with you and thus change my vote in this poll. Now I vote option "as credited f.e. Gong Li".
The reason is that there is no easy way to fit such Chinese names in the name fields of the program, unless we allow for sort of a "Chinese exception", because they reverse their first and last name, and just follow the order on screen regardless of the ideal parsing order.
Besides, if she is consistently credited as Gong Li, as you say, there would be no duplicates, provided that we all enter the data as on screen and do not copy from IMDb!


I also just realised that I should change my vote 
I agree, that "ideally" the program should try to fit the proper first name and last name into the proper fields and use the credited as feature whenever the names are reversed.
But the vagueness of the rules on the international handling of names and diversity of the user background are causing too much confusion.

So it may seems illogical to have Gong Li parsed as First name = Gong and Last Name = Li.  But it's seems to be the only thing easy enough to keep the data consistent across all the profiles.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
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Quoting tarantino:
Quote:
Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:

That's interesting.
After having thought about it, I have come to agree with you and thus change my vote in this poll. Now I vote option "as credited f.e. Gong Li".
The reason is that there is no easy way to fit such Chinese names in the name fields of the program, unless we allow for sort of a "Chinese exception", because they reverse their first and last name, and just follow the order on screen regardless of the ideal parsing order.
Besides, if she is consistently credited as Gong Li, as you say, there would be no duplicates, provided that we all enter the data as on screen and do not copy from IMDb!


I also just realised that I should change my vote 
I agree, that "ideally" the program should try to fit the proper first name and last name into the proper fields and use the credited as feature whenever the names are reversed.
But the vagueness of the rules on the international handling of names and diversity of the user background are causing too much confusion.

So it may seems illogical to have Gong Li parsed as First name = Gong and Last Name = Li.  But it's seems to be the only thing easy enough to keep the data consistent across all the profiles.


Amen to that!
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor?
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Registered: March 14, 2007
Posts: 3,830
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you only have to see it this way:
First Name is the first part of the actors Name as you see it in the credits
Last Name is the last part of the actors Name as you see it in the credits
Middle name is the rest of the name between the first part and last part of the actors name, unless it is known otherwise like in: Helena Bonham Carter where you would credit her Helena/ /Bonham Carter.
reference: Actor: Helena Bonham Carter
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Tarantino and Enry:

Once again it is no harder than you wish to make it. Sadly soem wish to make it very diffiocult.

Skip
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Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsugarjoe
Registered: March 15, 2007
Germany Posts: 374
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It is about time to bring this up again. Nothing from Ken on this in the meantime  , but a user changing profiles with all chinese actors using the clt which I personally feel is wrong.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting sugarjoe:
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It is about time to bring this up again. Nothing from Ken on this in the meantime  , but a user changing profiles with all chinese actors using the clt which I personally feel is wrong.

I'd hate to think how inaccurate the CLT is when it comes to Chinese names. It's bad enough with Western names, but when we've had people entering data the way they think is best, as opposed to a definitive answer from Invelos, the results are going to be way off!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBad Father
Registered: July 23, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I really don't understand the problem. Do people here lose sleep over this? Do they lay awake at night, tossing and turning thinking, "The database is wrong! The database is wrong!!! Her name is Li Gong NOT Gong Li!!!". For contribution purposes enter the name as credited per the rules. For your local and your online collection, enter the names any way you wish and lock the profiles. If someone comes along and submits a profile change that you disagree with, vote NO, state your reason in the comments and move on. You'll sleep better.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsynnerman
Take me with you. Please.
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Quoting sugarjoe:
Quote:
It is about time to bring this up again. Nothing from Ken on this in the meantime  , but a user changing profiles with all chinese actors using the clt which I personally feel is wrong.

I'd hate to think how inaccurate the CLT is when it comes to Chinese names. It's bad enough with Western names, but when we've had people entering data the way they think is best, as opposed to a definitive answer from Invelos, the results are going to be way off!


Tell me about it: I often discover five, six or even more versions of an actor's name.

1. FAMILY NAME/GIVEN NAME (with a dash)
2. FAMILY NAME/GIVEN NAME (without a dash)
3. GIVEN NAME (without a dash)/FAMILY NAME
4. GIVEN NAME (with a dash)/FAMILY NAME
5+. A Three-Way parsing of the name, sometimes even completely wrong, since the user didn't know what they were doing, so that the family name ends up in the middle and the given name is split between first and last!

It's a nightmare to sort out when you have a huge Asian collection.  This is mainly Hong Kong and Korean films, though.  Japanese titles, for the most part, seem to Westernize the names in the credits, so we rarely see something like Miike Takashi, which is why he is known in the West as Takashi Miike.  Chow Yun-fat was not credited as Yun-fat Chow, so the proper version of his name is how the fans learned it.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsynnerman
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting 8ballMax:
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I really don't understand the problem. Do people here lose sleep over this? Do they lay awake at night, tossing and turning thinking, "The database is wrong! The database is wrong!!! Her name is Li Gong NOT Gong Li!!!". For contribution purposes enter the name as credited per the rules. For your local and your online collection, enter the names any way you wish and lock the profiles. If someone comes along and submits a profile change that you disagree with, vote NO, state your reason in the comments and move on. You'll sleep better.


I don't think anyone is losing sleep over the issue.  Looking for an answer, especially one that has never come in all the months of arguing, is quite reasonable.  Going Wild West-style, "anything goes", as you propose, is not an answer.  It just leads to more chaos.  A simple clarification can let everyone know where the rules stand on the issue.

My opinion is that the rules already give us an answer: as credited.  Since the vast majority of titles (that actually have English credits) are listed Family Name/Given Name, that should be the appropriate format.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBad Father
Registered: July 23, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting synner_man:
Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
I really don't understand the problem. Do people here lose sleep over this? Do they lay awake at night, tossing and turning thinking, "The database is wrong! The database is wrong!!! Her name is Li Gong NOT Gong Li!!!". For contribution purposes enter the name as credited per the rules. For your local and your online collection, enter the names any way you wish and lock the profiles. If someone comes along and submits a profile change that you disagree with, vote NO, state your reason in the comments and move on. You'll sleep better.


Quote:
I don't think anyone is losing sleep over the issue.  Looking for an answer, especially one that has never come in all the months of arguing, is quite reasonable.  Going Wild West-style, "anything goes", as you propose, is not an answer.  It just leads to more chaos.  A simple clarification can let everyone know where the rules stand on the issue.



"Going Wild West-style, "anything goes", as I propose??? Where did you get that from my post? Didn't I just say "For contribution purposes enter the name as credited per the rules?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsynnerman
Take me with you. Please.
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I misread a piece of your post.  The line that followed was "for your local and your online collection", I misread the "your online" as "the online", making me think that you were suggesting that people just enter the way they want to parse it and shoot it out later.  I now see the "your".  Sorry for any confusion about that.

The rest of my argument still stands, though. 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I am going to go sit in a corner and have a nervous breakdown.

What don't these people not understand.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
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Outta here

Billy Video
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
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What don't these people not understand.

It's you who doesn't understand - even after it's been explained repeatedly.
There is a problem inputting Asian names into Profiler and until a decision is made by Invelos or the program is changed to remove the problem, this problem will only continue.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Wrong, North. I understand the Asian problem perfectly. I also understand the Rules, what is behind them and what the intent is...whether you like it or not. My position remains precis3ely as it always has been, i don't give a crap what the culture says...we say AS CREDITED PERIOD. What the user wants to do locally is his business, what he wants to Contribute is business of the Rules.

I have explained it repeatedly, you don't like the explanation...TOUGH.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
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Wrong, North. I understand the Asuian problem perfectly.

The rest of your post proves that you don't.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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What it proves it what the intent was when I designed it, the cultural problem was NOT relevant, the relevant issue was how the data was displayed ON SCREEN.

What you describe as not understanding, is YOU simply refusing to understand or accept the design. Culture was and remains TOTALLY irrelevant. My comment to you is much the same as what i made to surfeur. We have designed a standard, the fact th e you don't like it is simply too bad. If you choose to ignore it...FINE...do whatever you want to LOCALLY. The design of the system has not changed, it is based on film crediting NOT culture...anybodys culture.

You even try to apply some culturtal norm to First Name, Middle name and last Name and you have been told before they are merely positional terms, NOT the cultural terms you want apply.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
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