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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
There's a certain group here though, that can't refrain from attacking Skip no matter what he says, and a certain group that attacks me as being Skip's defender. You guys can try to justify your behavior using me as the goat all you want to, but that doesn't change anything. I have never been the one who initiates this stuff (except rarely), and I don't plan on starting. But I can guarantee that won't stop some of you from attacking me or Skip for nothing more than daring to have an opposing opinion. You and Skip have this wrong. I have seen all the people in that certain group agree with you guys on many subjects. That little fact, however, is always forgotten when they take the opposite position. I know I am considered part of that certain group yet I also know that I have disagreed with them on many occasions...often times taking Skip's side. I know I have gotten into several heated discussions with a couple og prominent members of that group both for and against a position Skip has taken...yes, I am saying that they were on Skip's side and I was odd man out. So please, spare me this 'anti-Skip' fantasy. I have experienced the truth first hand.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Right. But since this is an international forum, people from other cultures need to make allowances for people from cultures different than theirs. For example, there are a lot of people who have notions about how things are in America that are completely off the chart, and as a result there are misunderstandings in conversations. I know there are things about Europe that I don't get, but I still at least try to understand things before making a reply. Some I could name aren't that forgiving, but I'm trying to be reasonable here, so I'll keep my mouth shut. That is a true statement but you need to apply it to yourself as well. When someone from another culture tells you that a term you are using is offensive to their culture, you need to make allowances for that instead of trying to justify your use of the term. The misunderstandings aren't the problem...it's the justification and continued defense of the thing that caused the misunderstanding that is the problem. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
 I didn't make the list?!? Well...I better get posting!  You are now in the bottom 14 with 1%.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,029 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Its a two way street, sir. If you don't want me to reply to each post addressed to me, then those 10 I mentioned above shouldn't all be posting the same thing to me. Posts addressed to you as a person are one thing, posts addressing your view point on the topic being discussed are something else. The former may merit an individual answer, the latter doesn't - unless you have to clarify or refine your view point. Rifter: I say A. Poster1: I disagree with Rifter, it should be B. Poster2: I disagree as well, it should be B. WrongRifter: No Poster1, it should be A. Rifter: No Poster2, it should be A. RightRifter: I still think it should be A, because of A'. Hope that helps.  BTW, while I used your name in the above example, going by the statistics of the Rules thread in question, you don't qualify as a spammer there. | | | | Matthias |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
You are now in the bottom 14 with 1%. 1% I guess that makes me the Hell's Angel of the forum! If my bad joke went over anyone's head, the Hell's Angels are the original 1% motorcycle club. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 460 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well Kathy I am still not in the list but on another note Rifter, you obviously can say Gestapo, SD, fascism or whatever even in our Europe, but there is a big difference with Gestapo and Police. | | | | Jean-Paul |
| | Registered: April 7, 2007 |  Posts: 228 |
| | Posted: | | | | If my bad joke went over anyone's head, the Hell's Angels are the original 1% motorcycle club. hmmm this may make sound stupid... (well stupidER)  but 1% of what?  | | | That's the thing about racism, though, most of it is covert.
"Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice and Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality."Bakunin
“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”Churchill
Fire Next Time: http://www.valdosta.edu/~cawalker/baldwin.htm
Some people think football [and soccer] is a matter of life and death.... I can assure them it is much more serious than that. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 742 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
How would ANY of you know what I know or don't know about the Gestapo? If you Europeans weren't so terrified of even saying the word maybe we could have a discussion about what I meant. Obviously, it is so taboo to even think the word, let alone say it, that you can't possibly have a rational reaction to it. Just like when somebody here in the US dares to mention something about race, the hypocrisy of political correctness is so violent and so intimidating that it is nearly impossible to hold any kind of discussion on it.
Well, you all can continue to freak out over it, but I prefer to confront history and admit that certain things happened and that there are people who exhibit certain characteristics of those I made reference to. Are you really that insecure that you can't even utter the word? I really feel sorry for you if that's the case.
But, I don't want to overly offend anyone, so just substitute Police for Gestapo. The problem is not the use of certain words or references to certain organisations and declaring the plain uasage as improper per se. If you believe that to be the intention of my posts directed at you, you're mistaken and obviously did not understand me correctly, for whatever reason. I do agree that it's plain wrong to ban certain aspects of history and events from discussion altogether for no apparent reason. Without talking about history and develop a certain amount of understanding of events and the reasons that led to them happening, you're probably bound to repeat mistakes already made. So it's basically good to keep the past alive, lest we forget. The problem with your posts was an improper comparison you made and the even more improper try at a justification. THAT is something that should be off limits to the educated person you claim to be. If for some reason you actually believed the comparison to be "ok" to begin with, your understanding of an international community you proclaimed earlier in this thread should have kept you from further pursuing a train of thought obviously wrong, especially after being called on it. This has nothig to do with your personal POV on things but with the the basic understanding of certain hitoric facts and events and the impact they do have on others. As you pride yourself with a profound knowledge of history and politics, you surely could foresee the ramifications of your words easily. Yet still you chose them, defended them and that leaves only one conclusion: you did so to provoke unnecessarily and steer the attention away from the subject at hand and towards a completely different area. | | | | Lutz |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Darxon:
The subject at hand is both offensive and childish. Sadly it confirms many of the things that I already felt were true about many of the users, NOT ALL.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 742 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well Skip, I agree that the subject at hand is offensive (that is if you're referring to the Gestapo comparison). However, I fail to see the responses to it as being childish. Maybe I don't fully understand the intent of your comment, if so, please elaborate a little.
If, however, you want to direct your statement at the person who started this issue, you're probably right...
EDIT: Come to think of it, you're probably only referring to the tool that started this thread and the posts it gathered. That being the case, I don't really care about it and find the discussion it spawned to be childish as well, but from both camps.
The theme I commented on is another story altogether, and it's the only portion of this thread I responded to. The arguments regarding that subject are not childish IMO, the subject itself is very offensive though. | | | | Lutz | | | | Last edited: by Darxon |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | In fact< i find the topic of NOT one but THREE near identical threads to be nothing more than a form of bullying of its very own and it reflects badly on the users that started them.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
In fact< i find the topic of NOT one but THREE near identical threads to be nothing more than a form of bullying of its very own and it reflects badly on the users that started them.
Skip Perhaps so. But I think your overreaction might be based on the fact that you believe that you, personally, are the subject of these three threads. That might be a correct assumption. But, try cause and effect. Why would three separate people cite you as the subject of three threads about forum bullying? Perhaps your behavior has provoked enough people here that three of them are offended by that behavior to make a public statement protesting it. Your behavior and the tone of your posts, and the mass quantity of your intimidating argumentative posts might be a root cause of these threads you find so bullying. Do you really think that your angelic, perfect, kind behavior has somehow become targeted for attact by three bullies out of nowhere? That suddenly you are the sole victim here? I think you need go beyond your faint cries of victimhood here, and look to your actions which precipitated these three threads, sir. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff | | | | Last edited: by VibroCount |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Cliff:
It makes no difference to me at all, who the subject is. If it were you I would equally offended and defensive of you, or anyone else. I have said this before many times, including to you personally, with the exception of a very small handful users, I consider everyone in the Community to be my friend, it is my nature to defend friends who I feel are being unjustly dealt with, regardless of whether i might agree or disagree with what is being said by that user, that is irrelevant. If you slap my friend, you have slapped me, and i will repond as I deem necessary.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Skip, you say that you have a thick skin, but your actions betray you. You fight back at the tiniest slight, and never admit to ever causing anyone else to feel bullied. You spend far more posts attacking people and defending your attacks than you do actually adding great ideas and thoughtful discussion.
The post counter is just one tool that you yourself might use to examine your own behavior. I notice that in nearly every result which includes me, I hover around the 4% mark. I usually contribute (to the threads I get involved in) 1/25th of the dialog. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff | | | | Last edited: by VibroCount |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Right. But since this is an international forum, people from other cultures need to make allowances for people from cultures different than theirs. For example, there are a lot of people who have notions about how things are in America that are completely off the chart, and as a result there are misunderstandings in conversations. I know there are things about Europe that I don't get, but I still at least try to understand things before making a reply. Some I could name aren't that forgiving, but I'm trying to be reasonable here, so I'll keep my mouth shut.
That is a true statement but you need to apply it to yourself as well. When someone from another culture tells you that a term you are using is offensive to their culture, you need to make allowances for that instead of trying to justify your use of the term.
The misunderstandings aren't the problem...it's the justification and continued defense of the thing that caused the misunderstanding that is the problem. There is a difference between being offended by a certain term when it is applied in a personal manner, and stifling of a discussion because someone uses a word or term that might make them uncomfortable. Here in the US, for example, very often if someone tries to have a discussion on racial issues, unless the discussion is started by a black the speaker gets attacked as a racist, as if only blacks can understand racism. That is absolutely wrong, and we should not tolerate that sort of politically correct censorship. Ultimately, it suppresses the free exchange of ideas - some of which might be offensive - and that is never good. In Europe, particularly in Germany, for many years it has been against the law to even utter the word 'nazi' regardless of context. I don't know if that is still the law, but hiding from it like that does nobody any good. In fact, I've heard that such suppression has actually helped the growth of neo-nazi skinhead groups in many parts of Germany because suppression leads to ignorance of the facts about nazism. It has become the forbidden fruit and thus glamorized among young people who don't know the history of it. Censorship of any kind is abhorrent to me. You may or may not agree with the terminology I used, but allowing it to be taken out of context and misunderstood is wrong. Imbuing words with human-like characteristics, such as evil, is the sign of someone who has let paranoia take over their thinking. I was referring to a certain type of behavior, not any particular individual. Of course, the way some people reacted, you'd never know that. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
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