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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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Global Warming |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Skip,
there is no fix for global warming, I have never seen anyone suggest that there is. So the idea that we shouldn't do anything because we may create a worse situation doesn't make sense.
The suggestion that most people adhere to is that we simply minimise our impact and influence on the climate change by reducing our CO2 emissions, recycling more, using less energy - thus conserving fossil fuels for longer and various other things we can do as a species to reduce any damage we are doing.
And if global warming doesn't exist - what's wrong with doing those things anyway? we end up with cleaner air, less landfills, lower energy bills etc. - all good things.
As an aside, Sir David Attenborough happened to be on a chat show the other night and he was asked about climate change. He was asked why he kept quiet about it for so many years and he said that he heard about the climate change theory decades ago, but refused to spread doom and gloom over what could only be rumours. And the only way to verify it was to study the changes over many years. Now when asked whether climate change existed and whether mankind were contributing, he said "no doubt about it". | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hear hear! You're very right in saying there's nothing wrong with doing these things anyway, regardless whether we are the cause of global warming or not. Sooner or later we WILL run out of fossil fuels - the sooner we will no longer be dependent on them, the better. And that's not even taking into account the types of regime governing the countries where large shares of these fossil fuels happen to be in. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | One users opinion: The atmosphere in this thread reminds me a little of Chicken Little. "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!! Is it? No one can say for sure what is happening. There isn't enough hard data to determine with any degree of accuracy what exactly may be occuring with the climate. Is Global Warming occurring? I'm leaning toward a definate maybe. Is man a contributing factor? I doubt it. This planet has been around for many millions, billions of years and yet we only have world climatological records for a couple hundred years. With so little data, how can we possibly create a model that can determine with any degree of accuracy that global warming is in fact occuring or, if it is, that it is being accelerated by man or cyclical? Heck...the weatherman can't even get it right most of the time. This blue orb we call home has undergone cyclical climate changes numerous times in its existence...without the assistance of man. What, if anything, can man possibly do to prevent another climate change from occurring? Are we that arrogant to believe we can control Mother Nature? Many believe that our salvation lies in the cutting of greenhouse gas emissions. I agree that the cutting of greenhouse gasses is a good thing...it can't hurt  . But at what cost? Do we ravage our economies to the point of collapse? The only thing man can do is to prepare for the innevitable. We must have a National Global Warming Preparedness Plan. Assess the risk, invest more in infrastructure, augment communications, coordinate agencies and create emergency plans. Hurricane Katrina taught us the need for this. Moving populations away from vulnerable coastlines, for example, would be a good idea. Funding more studies in Hydroponics and desert farming. On a personal level, have an emergency plan in place for your family. Keep at least a 2 weeks supply of food, water and fuel for your family. Have a ready reserve of cash on hand (when the lights go out, ATMs aren't gonna work ). For those that can, legally, keep a firearm in the home and train family members in their safe use and handling (during a catasrophe it's a dog-eat-dog world out there and those that don't have will be looking closely at those that do). Like the Boy Scout Motto says, just "Be Prepared". | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 21, 2007 |  Posts: 171 |
| | Posted: | | | | To 8ballMax
I sure hope that your posting was a joke. If it wasn't a joke, then I am glad you are in California and I am in Canada.
To nolesrule
To answer your question of: How many scientists actually study the climate of other planets?
I suspect that there are thousands. | | | | Graham |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 366 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm sure there are thousands, but they are not the climatologists that are preaching doom and gloom.
Doom and gloom makes for good headlines on the front page. Temperature increases on other planets make the bottom corner of page 8 of the newspaper. So no one tends to listen when people say the two issues might actually be linked because one is a local "catastrophe" while the other is happening somewhere else. | | | | Last edited: by nolesrule |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Skip,
there is no fix for global warming, I have never seen anyone suggest that there is. So the idea that we shouldn't do anything because we may create a worse situation doesn't make sense.
The suggestion that most people adhere to is that we simply minimise our impact and influence on the climate change by reducing our CO2 emissions, recycling more, using less energy - thus conserving fossil fuels for longer and various other things we can do as a species to reduce any damage we are doing.
And if global warming doesn't exist - what's wrong with doing those things anyway? we end up with cleaner air, less landfills, lower energy bills etc. - all good things.
As an aside, Sir David Attenborough happened to be on a chat show the other night and he was asked about climate change. He was asked why he kept quiet about it for so many years and he said that he heard about the climate change theory decades ago, but refused to spread doom and gloom over what could only be rumours. And the only way to verify it was to study the changes over many years. Now when asked whether climate change existed and whether mankind were contributing, he said "no doubt about it". North: I didn't say do NOTHING, I said figure out how to adapt to the situation and survive. As for reducing CO2 emissions, I suggest holding your breath. It might be interesting to learn how many billions of tons of this "polluting" gas the respiration of over 7 Billion human beings are in the numbers that are bandied about, I will wager it is NOT insignificant. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | As for is this a joke...absolutely not. The joke recently won the Nobel Prize. In the early Christian faith, men were allowed to pay the church pennance for adulterous behavior, for the price demanded by the church, a man could be forgiven...gee this sound familiar to me. And like the Catholic Church in those days Al Bore is profiting GREATLY from the sale of carbon credits. As I said the answer is NOT to try and fix the problem, the cure would be worse than the disease. The answer is try to survive and figure out what reasonable adjustments we can make as we move towards a new energy system. Noles mentioned the hybrid issue. Here is another fine example, recently the US Congress passed and the signed a bill which will eliminate incandescent light bulbs in the US by 2014. Some will say hooray, I say our Congress was nuts. Why do i say that. Because they are pushing fluorescent light bulbs, which true enough save energy. However, it is also well documented that some people cannot tolerate the light of fluorescence for long periods of time, in some cases it brings on migraine headaches and other ills. BUT more importantly, fluorescent lighting uses MERCURY, a very hazardous metal, and if you should break one...we ll you have a mess on your hands. So we save energy while we further pollute our planet with more hazardous material....BRILLIANT!!! We run around trying to figure this out, and all the while, we have a ticking time bomb in Yosemite National Park. A supervolcano which when it blows will take out a very large portion of the United States and its overdue according to some scientists. But, then there is the San Andreas Fault, home of the forthcoming "Big One", which one day will wreak havoc on the West Coast of the United States. Then thers is the New Madrid Fault, also overdue for a major slippage, that will wreak havoc along the Mississppi River Basin. Let's not forget the Canary Islands, where an entire mountain side is expected to slip into the Atlantic Ocean and by some scientists sneding a tsunami in excess of 300 feet high screaming towards the East Coast of the US. And let's not forget the potential asteroid impact projected for, I think, 2032, or perhaps the one we don't know about. This doe not even begin to deal with all of the possibilities. Oh woe is me...the end is nigh. Survival is the KEY. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Yosemite National Park Yellowstone National Park.  And here's another example, although it has naught to do with the environment, but is a good illustration. According to dietitians, butter was bad for us, so we came up with margarine to replace it. After many years, turns out that margarine with its transfats was even worse than butter. The point being, sometimes the seemingly harmless substitute for the BAD THING(TM) is worse. | | | | Last edited: by nolesrule |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Right, Yellowstone, i stand corrected.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 460 |
| | Posted: | | | | Paul, True on the first part. I agree I should have put it differently, definitely after I searched a bit on the Web. I do think we all agree that no matter when it started we should do something if and where possible. But the point I was making about the car about taking a million years to get from A to B stands. Example: my girlfriend drives a Corsa 1.2 which is probably cleaner and more likely to be more fuel efficient than my 2.0 diesel, but in fact it will take her about 2 to 3 hours more to drive from her home in Austria to me in the Netherlands, and that is a fact. I agree with what Deejay wrote, we need to put money into innovative research and development. I read somewhere that Honda is working on a diesel for the USA market. Diesels are/were out of the question in the USA because they're too poluting. If Honda is actually capable to make diesel `cleaner` as if they were gasoline cars we are also making progress.. Cars running on O2.. there is something. Another example: aircrafts are not extremely clean, right? What to do A put an environmental tax, or B abolish flight on the whole. A. What happens if flying is additionally taxed with an so called environmental tax? Will people fly less? No they won't, therefore will it in fact help the environment? No it won't. Will it generate an additional income for a country? Yes it will. How should that government spend that money towards 'fixing' the 'damage' done by flying? You can't so it is in fact a faulty and a fake tax with no effect on the environment except on the wallets of people who worked a whole year and want to enjoy their holiday abroad. B. Then lets agree and nobody would fly anymore. We would all take the train. Okay it'll take longer on certain distances, and you won't be able to get to certain places/countries. But what damage would you do then? Oh BTW there are only two hybirds that are actually 'green' the Toyota Prius and the Honda Hybrid. The Lexus doesn't fall into this category b/c it emmits too much CO2. Quote:
In The Netherlands company cars which are used privatly (this is actually a tax thing AND has in fact nothing to do with the environment) are taxed either 14% of purchase price, or 25%.
Cars in the 14% range (because of their fuel emissions) are:
- Toyota Prius - Hybrid - 1.5ltr - Hatchback
- Honda Civic - Hybrid - 1.4ltr - Hatchback
- Smart fortwo CDI - Gasoline - 0.8ltr - (extremely) Companct
- Smart fortwo MHD - Gasoline - (extremely) Companct
- Toyota Aygo - Gasoline - 1.0ltr - (extremely) Companct
- Peugeot 107 - Gasoline - 1.0ltr - (extremely) Companct
- Daihatsu Cuore - Gasoline - 1.0ltr - (extremely) Companct
- Citroën C1 - Gasoline - 1.0ltr - (extremely) Companct
| | | | Jean-Paul |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
As for reducing CO2 emissions, I suggest holding your breath. It might be interesting to learn how many billions of tons of this "polluting" gas the respiration of over 7 Billion human beings are in the numbers that are bandied about, I will wager it is NOT insignificant.
Skip Actually it is fairly insignificant. According to these figures, it's less than 10% of the total CO2 emissions. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
We run around trying to figure this out, and all the while, we have a ticking time bomb in Yosemite National Park. A supervolcano which when it blows will take out a very large portion of the United States and its overdue according to some scientists. But, then there is the San Andreas Fault, home of the forthcoming "Big One", which one day will wreak havoc on the West Coast of the United States. Then thers is the New Madrid Fault, also overdue for a major slippage, that will wreak havoc along the Mississppi River Basin. Let's not forget the Canary Islands, where an entire mountain side is expected to slip into the Atlantic Ocean and by some scientists sneding a tsunami in excess of 300 feet high screaming towards the East Coast of the US. All these tragedies just waiting to trounce the US. No one said there wasn't a plus side to global disaster...  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
We run around trying to figure this out, and all the while, we have a ticking time bomb in Yosemite National Park. A supervolcano which when it blows will take out a very large portion of the United States and its overdue according to some scientists. But, then there is the San Andreas Fault, home of the forthcoming "Big One", which one day will wreak havoc on the West Coast of the United States. Then thers is the New Madrid Fault, also overdue for a major slippage, that will wreak havoc along the Mississppi River Basin. Let's not forget the Canary Islands, where an entire mountain side is expected to slip into the Atlantic Ocean and by some scientists sneding a tsunami in excess of 300 feet high screaming towards the East Coast of the US.
All these tragedies just waiting to trounce the US. No one said there wasn't a plus side to global disaster... I know you're just joking but a lot of people would love to see just that. What they don't realize is that if the largest economy in the world collapses, the rest won't be far behind.  | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting FUBAR: Quote:
To 8ballMax
I sure hope that your posting was a joke. If it wasn't a joke, then I am glad you are in California and I am in Canada.
I refuse to dignify your insults with a response other than to say that at least I had the guts to openly express my opinion on this matter. Apparently in doing so I opened myself up for public redicule...but such is life. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | 8Ball: Welcome to the party, there is plenty of room at my table.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
8Ball:
Welcome to the party, there is plenty of room at my table.
Skip Do we have to wear silly hats? I refuse to wear a silly hat . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection | | | | Last edited: by Bad Father |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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