Tossing in an example of something else I have experienced my only throw flame on the fire, or cement my reputation as someone who can be outsmarted by a tree trunk in fair debate.     

Two years ago my "Nephew", (I use the " snice he is not blood but a son of a great friend,) turned ten years old. His parents are very liberal, and own guns mostly for target practice, and an number of out group who own guns decided that this was they right time to take him to a gun safety course to learn the dangers of mishandling of firearms. When the parents of some of his friends found out about this they questioned his parents about why they would want to do such a a thing. They explained it was not to "glorify" guns, but to teach at an early age responsibility when it came to firearms. About 5 families asked if they and their kids could attend as well. They all learned the basics of safe and responsible gun handling.

Perhaps the greatest lesson they took away was when asked by the instructor, )mind you this was not part of the standard instruction,) How many played shooter games that involved killing monsters or people? When some of the kids said they did he made a very simple demonstration.

He took two watermelons, and one straw dummy with a pomegranate in its torso.
He than took aim, and when these targets exploded with each hit. Seeing the gore that was left you could see the look in each kids eyes that they finally knew what a gun could do to someone.

They also pledged to follow the safety lessons they learned that day

Now nothing we did that day swayed anyone from their pro/anti gun views.

I do feel that maybe we did teach a few kids about the difference of play guns, and what the reality of the weapons can do.

None of my circle of friends ever store their firearms without trigger lockas, and or a double locked gun cabinet.

Guns IMHO are no different than an automobile, they both can be used for good or evil.  Both should be licensed and you should take a test to use it, just that no one screams "Ban Cars" when innocent people are mowed down by cars.

One other question as a person who has lost a family member to a drunk driver.

Why when a sober or drunk person kills someone with a gun is it murder? Yet when a sober/drunk person kills a person or family by running into them with a huge car is it called manslaughter?

Bobb

Quoting bobb:

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(...)
Guns IMHO are no different than an automobile, they both can be used for good or evil.  Both should be licensed and you should take a test to use it, just that no one screams "Ban Cars" when innocent people are mowed down by cars.

And this, in my opinion, is what our founding fathers meant by 'A well regulated militia.'  Ordinary citizens trained in the safe use of firearms.  Most, if not all, gun related accidents happen in homes where people were not properly trained.

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One other question as a person who has lost a family member to a drunk driver.

Why when a sober or drunk person kills someone with a gun is it murder? Yet when a sober/drunk person kills a person or family by running into them with a huge car is it called manslaughter?

Bobb

It isn't always called murder when someone is killed by a gun.  It all depends on intent.  Accidental shootings can be classified as manslaughter.

Quoting mdnitoil:

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Quoting skipnet50:

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Quoting mdnitoil:

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Well, I didn't find the comment offensive, just ignorant.  One of the biggest reasons there are a disproportionate number of blacks in jail is the inability to afford quality legal services.  There are a number of other reasons of course, but nobody chooses a public defender when they can afford better.  In that sense, the law truly is colorblind.  If you're poor, the odds are you're probably screwed in court.

I won't call your comment ignorant, midnit. You are entitled to your opinion. I will say your comment displays a lack of understanding of what I was saying. Southast DC is still blighted as a result of 1968 riots, it just isn't smart to get mad at others and burn your own home, in fact it is just about as dumb as it gets.Nor is acceptabl;e for a bunch a street hooligans to riot, pull a man from a truck and throw a brick at his head...why?...simply because he happened to be driving through the wrong place at the wrong time, NOT because of anything he did. Do I respect white people who display there own versions of stupidity and anti-social behavior, no, I don't and they should be subject to the same penalties. Is it acceptable to garnt a break to illegal aliens from any country, while there are people literally dying to come to this country legally and others who wait for YEARS to come here legally, no it is not  and as far as I am concerned such people should return home voluntarily and begin the process to return legally, if they are caught in this country they should be jailed, deported and forbidden from returnin g under any circumstances. Harsh, yes.

I have many friends who are black and share the same opinions I do, are they too ignorant and racist, I don't think so. They too, blame the general condition of family within their community. What is ignorant, and i won't even try and judge racist, is refusal to see the problems within a given secto and take action to try and do something about, or in fact to villfy one of the smartest people within a community because he dares to call the community for its own misbehavior and refusal to be responsible for their own actions and instead blame others.

Skip

None of this addresses the disproportinate amount of african americans in jail.  The point I was trying to make which you don't seem to be acknowledging is that all the problems you mention are indicitive of any low income community.  Its not a race thing, its a money thing.  At the turn of the century, the Irish rioted and tore up their whole section of slum housing in Manhattan.  I don't see anybody seriously suggesting that this indicates some kind of "Irish" problem.  Of course there were plenty of people at the time who gleefully assigned the behavior to some sort of genetic deficiency.

I don't think it's a genetic thing , at all,midnit. That wo0uld be ignorant. to even suggest that were the case. I think it is a direct result of breakdown 0f the family structure. The money thing doesn't wash either, that is simply a ruse to try and throw the responsibility somewhere else. The responsibility for the behavior lies with the thugs (black, white, purple or whatever) caused the problem. We see videos of some big, brave dude beaten the crap out of an 80 year old woman. That's about money, BS, that's about some punk who's family structure failed him and didn't teach him better.

Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting bobb:

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Guns IMHO are no different than an automobile, they both can be used for good or evil.  Both should be licensed and you should take a test to use it, just that no one screams "Ban Cars" when innocent people are mowed down by cars.

And this, in my opinion, is what our founding fathers meant by 'A well regulated militia.'  Ordinary citizens trained in the safe use of firearms.  Most, if not all, gun related accidents happen in homes where people were not properly trained.

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One other question as a person who has lost a family member to a drunk driver.

Why when a sober or drunk person kills someone with a gun is it murder? Yet when a sober/drunk person kills a person or family by running into them with a huge car is it called manslaughter?

Bobb

It isn't always called murder when someone is killed by a gun.  It all depends on intent.  Accidental shootings can be classified as manslaughter.

I agree 100%, Unicus.

Skip

And I agree 100% with Skip 

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Agreed, but we need to not let them use that as an excuse, my friend. It's not. This country owes none of us anything beyond the opportunity, if we do not make the most of those opportunities then it is our fault and we must accept responsibility for that failure. One of the fundamental diufferences in philosophy between myself as a conservative and most liberals is this. I believe that if you give a man a fish you will feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish you will feed for a lifetime. The liberals have been handing out money via we;fare and whatever for years in attempt to eliminate poverty. They have made little or no progress, I see it as simply a form of economic enslavement make, the "ppor" dependent on the generosity of the government instead of teaching them to take care of themselves. Poverty will always exist, it's a simple fact, but let's also look at 'poverty" in America, our POOREST, relative to the pporest of the world, live like a king. We talk about American children being hungry, true, but compared to the hunger felt by children worldwide, it's nothing.

I also fear that people who seem to proclaim themselves as leaders of the Afican-American Community play the race card far too much and teach people to play the race card, which is beginning to backfire. They do this because if they can't play the race card, then the reason for their existence is gone and the money which they leeched from the Community will dry up....are listen "Rev." Jackson and Sharpton.

Skip

This is something, I haven't looked at a great deal....yet. But I have no objection in principle to student loans and grants with one proviso, we have to understand that Uncle Sam is not made out of money, there have to be limits of some sort. That said there are millions of dollars of  college scholarships that go unclaimed every year. Now, yes,, which leads us back to the family to get scholarships one has to do well in school which will lead us back to the family structure again. And many take advantage of the US Military to get schooling, and this is something that I firmly believe needs to be continued, the GI Bill.

Skip

Quoting Kulju:

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After reading a seven pages of this "conversation" I'm very happy to live in a country where you don't have to have a gun to feel safe at home (or in the streets). I think this thread just tells a sad story about present state of the US sociaty.

Just for the record, I don't need a gun to feel safe in my home or in the street.  I am, however, happy to live in a country that allows me to have one should the need ever arise.

I presume you have read carefully, Kulju. that word was used with specific purpose meaning and intent. Deliberately. As I said I will defend that particular users ability to voice his opinion no matter what it is. However when he uses a system we have with the express purpose of attempting to stifle someone else's speech, it reminds me of Josef Stalin.

Skip