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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Orion Pictures |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote:
Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
It doesn't make any difference the rule is clear in the lusting order. This is not the proper forum to gripe about a rule, or try to get it changed. It is clear today and wb get #1 slot. If that is what you complaining about then you aren't saying the rule isnt clear or even hard to understand, it is that you think it should be done some other way.and that is exactly the sort if thing I have talked about.
Clear - You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Actually the rules say this is the appropriate place for questions - "There is further information about correct listings of studios and media companies, and the opportunity to ask questions if unsure, in the Contributions forum."
And I'm not griping, I have no dog in this hunt. I'm also not trying to get any rule change, I've never made any comment about changing or updating the rules, just for clarification. But it isn't CLEAR, I think the only person that thinks it is in this case is you. So is everyone else wrong, or just you? Double I have a unique perspective, I designed it, I know what it means. I look at it today and it means the same thing it did when it was laid out. Now users are making claims of lack of clarity, which I have said I don't see, and tried to explain. All I can do is explain. Just like when you asked why and I said the rule says and you said but the answer remains the rules says. W had one user try to make a distinction between a theatrical releasing company and a distributor which does not exist. On top of that the credit refers to released through. So as I said you can claim lack of clarity and please do bring it here and I will always try to help if I can. I dee no real lack here, imagined maybe not by the op. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Double
I don't believe I called her out specifically until she claimed to follow the rules of invelos. That's incorrect and I pointed it out and why, politely. She responded with her usual name calling and aspersions. Not my fault. Below was her second response in the thread, but the one you responded to: Quoting Kathy: Quote:
The forums is a place to ask questions and hopefully get answers. But, so far this thread hasn't helped my understanding of the issue at all.
In fact, it seems to me, this section of the rules needs to be simplified or updated so that it is more easily understood. And your response: Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Kathy
It idhard to simplify something that had may be 12 words in it. It is insanely simplet like media companies used to be simple, you were among those whoclaimed it was not simple and now look, it makes no sense and it is many times larger than it needs to be. What I see is people want to claim its too hard to figure out, and the n fontwant to listen . You have your POV, I have mine, and mine is at least as legitimate as yours, I would argue more so because my involvement was a good bit more intimate than you or anyone else save for one other. You want your pov acknowledged....maybe you should...never mind. Preaching to a wall That is politely? I'd hate to see what an impolite response would be. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Double
I have a unique perspective, I designed it, I know what it means. I look at it today and it means the same thing it did when it was laid out. Now users are making claims of lack of clarity, which I have said I don't see, and tried to explain. All I can do is explain. Just like when you asked why and I said the rule says and you said but the answer remains the rules says. W had one user try to make a distinction between a theatrical releasing company and a distributor which does not exist. On top of that the credit refers to released through. You designed it? Or helped to design it? Henry Ford helped develop the first automotive assembly line, but today's process is much different than one from 100 years ago. Things evolve and improved upon, are you saying there are no ways to improve the rules? Is it possible that you didn't think of everything back when you wrote them? I'd also take issue that you offered any explanation, you just said the rules are clear. It took 3 or 4 pages of discussion for you to state what part of the rules you were talking about being 'clear' Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
So as I said you can claim lack of clarity and please do bring it here and I will always try to help if I can. I dee no real lack here, imagined maybe not by the op. You I think are by yourself on it being clear. If the rule is as you say it is then I think the rule is wrong. Orion was the studio that produced the content of the films in question and should have primary credit, of course IMO. I also don't think you offer as much help as you think you do. Your normal response is that you state you know the rules but offer very little in regards to details or clarity. If you would have stated the rule for clarity and explained your response I don't think this would have turned into a six pager by now. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server |
| | Registered: July 16, 2010 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 523 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Lol spiky. I understand, I will go no further than that however. I am weary of people making claims about the rules being unclear and try to help and get shot st, then have to listen to people lacking any background claim that they KNOW what they don't. Like I said , my ftirnd, I have read and reread the rules hundreds.of times from original conception. To today. I see people claiming lack of clarity and its not there, I think they want to create lack of clarity and understanding, my opinion. Largely brought on because such things usually involve the sane small batch of users. I think people raise queries about the Rules either because they'd like them to say we should do something differently, or because they can't interpret then in some circumstances. The first group will always exist, as the Rules will never provide what everyone wants, because this is based on personal preferences and needs. However, the second group can be dealt with by writing the Rules in Plain English. A small group of specific individuals may well know the exact intent of every single Rule, but if how they’re written doesn’t convey the nuances of of this and what needs to be done, then it doesn’t really make a lot of difference. Even if everything one of these people said here was totally accepted 100% of the time, only a smallish proportion of the people that contribute things would see that, whlist the rest of them would continue to interpret the Rules in different ways. What’s written in them has to be made far clearer and unambiguous, in a way that means everyone with no specialist knowledge or history with the software can understand them and interpret them in the same way. This is especially important as there’re lots of people who use the software for who English probably isn’t their first language. They need to be clear enough for everyone. Writing ‘idiot-proof’ instructions for things is really hard. (Think of all the flat-pack furniture nightmares that have occurred, thanks to ‘the instructions’ that came with them.) It’s especially hard to write them if you invented what they’re being written about, as the inventor will always have an inherent understand that others don’t and never will possess, which makes it really hard for that sort of person to write them with ordinary folk in mind. They should be written and then proof read and tested by people who had nothing to do with the design of what they’ve been written about, to find out what works and what doesn’t, so they can be modified and tested again. From time to time in my job I work with the database designers, not to write them (I struggle to even use Excel properly), but to say what’s needed and then test what they come up with. Same thing with written articles; I’ll ask people to proof read what I write to make sure they make sense, the intent is clear and the syntax is correct. I’m not entirely stupid, but I’m amazed at how often others read something I think is clear and come to a totally different conclusion to what I’d intended. (If you’re reading this and thinking why is he writing about the future of the motor car in the 22nd century, then that’s a good example of what I mean.) Unfortunately, until such time as Invelos is willing and able to do this, or chooses to interact with the things that are raised in the Forums differently, I’m not sure much will change. After six pages I’m still not a lot clearer on the OP’s question. | | | | Do you ever find yourself striving for perfection with an almost worthless attempt at it? Guttermouth "Lemon Water". Also, I include in my Profiler database VHS tapes, audio DVDs, audio books (digital, cassette and CD), video games (digital, DVD and CD) and 'enhanced' CDs with video tracks on them, as well as films and TV I've bought digitally. So I'm an anarchist, deal with it. Just be thankful I don't include most of my records and CDs etc in it too; don't think I haven't been tempted... | | | | Last edited: by SpikyCactus |
| | Registered: July 16, 2010 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 523 |
| | Posted: | | | | .
Double posting. Duh! And clearly a ploy to increase my posting tally by one. And written whist I was eating a bowl of custard. And written because I’d previously been trying (and failing) to write a humorous review of “Twelve Monkeys” for my blog. There’s only so much mileage in a review based on the fact that I wanted to strangle Madeleine Stowe’s character (Dr Kathryn Railly) because she was just so very, very annoying! | | | | Do you ever find yourself striving for perfection with an almost worthless attempt at it? Guttermouth "Lemon Water". Also, I include in my Profiler database VHS tapes, audio DVDs, audio books (digital, cassette and CD), video games (digital, DVD and CD) and 'enhanced' CDs with video tracks on them, as well as films and TV I've bought digitally. So I'm an anarchist, deal with it. Just be thankful I don't include most of my records and CDs etc in it too; don't think I haven't been tempted... | | | | Last edited: by SpikyCactus |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Trust me double. That was polite. She was not called out at that point. She made statement and I directly addressed her statement. She has her POV and I will acknowledge that POV. If I have a different POV then due to my direct and intimate involvement with the rules development, well...you know where that goes. Too often some users will blow that off with bunk. I am open to all sorts of discussion but this particular forum is about questions about the rules which I will try to deal with, this forum is not about I don't like this rule or it should be this way. This is not the place, I will offer what I can to hopefully make it clear or clearer, to the best of my ability. I did make note that the community in media companies created something that even I don't understand.
I did not "call" her out until she referred to following the rules. I did not name call or cast an aspersions, I did say quite simply that that was an incorrect statement and why. I then asked her to please do as Gerri suggested. Het response was at the least to cast aspersions again at me if not implied name calling. She comes off to me as if she believes that she can say whatever she wishes using any venom she chooses, but I am not allowed to say a word to her or question her, to me, very gross behavior.<sigh> oh well... | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | |  Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Trust me double. That was polite. No... no it wasn't. Quote:
She was not called out at that point. She made statement and I directly addressed her statement. She has her POV and I will acknowledge that POV. If I have a different POV then due to my direct and intimate involvement with the rules development, well...you know where that goes. I don't... but that's OK. Quote:
Too often some users will blow that off with bunk. I am open to all sorts of discussion but this particular forum is about questions about the rules which I will try to deal with, this forum is not about I don't like this rule or it should be this way. This is not the place, I will offer what I can to hopefully make it clear or clearer, to the best of my ability. I did make note that the community in media companies created something that even I don't understand. This really comes off as you are a Moderator or part of the Invelos Support team. While I do believe you have knowledge that could be useful, something is lost in translation. Your posts are rarely helpful and if anything make most topics more confusing. I think that you are above explaining yourself and your position and expect people to take everything you say as gospel. Maybe others find your posts helpful but for the most part I have to reread them a few times to try and figure out what you are saying. You also come across as you are part of the Invelos Support team. Quote:
I did not "call" her out until she referred to following the rules. What?? Here is here post again: Quoting Kathy: Quote:
The forums is a place to ask questions and hopefully get answers. But, so far this thread hasn't helped my understanding of the issue at all.
In fact, it seems to me, this section of the rules needs to be simplified or updated so that it is more easily understood. Where did she say anything about following the rules? She made mention that perhaps the rules could be update to be clearer on the issue. Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
I did not name call or cast an aspersions, I did say quite simply that that was an incorrect statement and why. I then asked her to please do as Gerri suggested. Het response was at the least to cast aspersions again at me if not implied name calling. She comes off to me as if she believes that she can say whatever she wishes using any venom she chooses, but I am not allowed to say a word to her or question her, to me, very gross behavior.<sigh> oh well... Why did that have anything to do with this topic? Nothing at all. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 71 |
| | Posted: | | | | Please stay on topic...  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Spiky
I understand. All I can do in the absence of invelis weighing in, which is rare, is to try and communicate the best I can on the 98% of the rules that are intact, what we were trying to do and why. After 7 years of incessant personal insults, perhaps I have become a little cynical. As I have said if I were a user and spiky were the one that did what I tried to do. I would never insult him, tell him his opinion was worth no more than mine, clearly it would be because he developed what became the rules and he has a unique perspective., make slanderous or other dismissive remarks about him. I would instead be trying to learn from him. The rules will never be perfect, you have that correct, pal. Iwill keep trying and I expect I will continue to take fire. Don't ask me about media companies , lol | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DigitalGhost: Quote:
Please stay on topic...  Apologies for my part in the derailing of this topic. I still think Invelos should get members of the community to be volunteer moderators to help enforce keeping people on topic (my posts included), but without any consistent moderation things can go off the rails quickly. And I grow frustrated that you can't ask a simple question in this forum without the worry that you will be accused of trying to change the rules or other ulterior motives. While some may think I am picking on Skip, I'm not. Anyone that acts in the way he acts should be held accountable. Whether it is myself, Kathy, Skip, T!M, Alien Redrum, whoever... Just be consistent and have an ongoing presence. Giving a red flag doesn't seem to do much, and when a Moderator finally responds it is much too late. I responded because I didn't think his posts were acceptable, and remaining silent is like acknowledging that his behavior is OK. He continues to play the victim card, like he has to endure all the insults when the fact he is the common denominator in many arguments. How many people left the forums directly due to Skip? Goto any other movie/DVD forum and ask what people think of DVD Profiler, I guarantee that a few things would be brought up: One, it's a great program. 2) The contribution system is tricky. 3) The forum are a mess and newbies are mocked and ridiculed for asking stupid questions. Is that really the type of atmosphere and reputation we want for Invelos? Sorry, my last two cents on this off topic matter! Back to the topic on hand, I would love to hear Ken's thoughts on the matter, and how to handle these types of situations. I personally think Orion should be first and WB listed second. But like always I'll follow the rules, if I don't like them I'll change them locally. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,878 |
| | Posted: | | | | I would love to see Theatrical Distributor/Release Studio separated from Production Company. This would be a program change but would solve these issues. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Danae Cassandra: Quote:
I would love to see Theatrical Distributor/Release Studio separated from Production Company. This would be a program change but would solve these issues. I think I'd tend to agree. I wonder what the % of them are different. I'm sure many more are different today wish so many independent films getting picked up and released by different studios. Not to mention Dreamworks which has always had other studios distribute their films for them. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Danae Cassandra: Quote:
I would love to see Theatrical Distributor/Release Studio separated from Production Company. This would be a program change but would solve these issues. This would be an ideal answer, but it is also not one that can be dealt with now. All I can do is say that today the rule says that theatrical release takes priority slot 1. Tomorrow who knows. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Changing the wording to Theatrical Distributor/Release Studio would solve the problem without a program change. |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 823 |
| | Posted: | | | | This cosmic dance of bursting decadence and withheld permissions twists all our arms collectively. But, if sweetness can win - and it can - then? I'll still be here tomorrow, to high five you, yesterday, my friend. Peace. | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | I know I am late to the game but, according to the rules, "Yes, WB qualifies too, and it should be listed FIRST, before Orion" is the correct answer...but only because they are also a 'studio'. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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