Quoting Woola:

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James:

The Rules aren't hard at all. You can get caught up in various bits of minutiae. But the core of the Rules is that everything is based on REAL data, that which every user can see, and as it actually appears. It really is very simple, no matter those who like to complain about their complexity, they really raeel aren't.

Skip

That actually wasn't what I was saying at all.  I was referring to the aforementioned "rules" that appear in the forum and are allegedly official even though they don't appear in the official rules that Ken has written.  When you have these "rules" in the forum that people would come to the forum to ask about and then get berated by the likes of you, you end up with a very small group of users that want to actually participate (again, myself included).  I much rather prefer to update my own local database rather than having to deal with anything else because of all the hassle that goes into such ridiculous little details like accents or puppeteers.

Quoting tkinnen:

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Quoting Merrik:

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Quoting Woola:

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It is unrealistic

It's not even close to unrealistic to want better customer service for your money.

Maybe I have a completely different view on customer service but my though process goes like:

1) Am I paying a monthly subscription fee? No
2) Am I paying a support contract for on-going support? No
3) Am I paying a maintenance contract for new releases? No
4) Was I promised as part of the purchase of the software something I am not getting? No

If the answer to either of the first two points above was "Yes" then I would not be happy with what we have.  However, for a one time fee of $30 USD I am happy with what is provided.

So what customer service should I expect beyond what we are already receiving for what I paid for? 

What level of service do people expect for what the software costs and the money spent?

Tom

So when you buy software (or anything, for that matter), once you pay for it you have no expectation of customer service should you have any questions or problems, once you leave the building (so to speak)?

Not me. If I purchase a product and I am unfamiliar with how something works, or something goes wrong, I expect a level of customer service to help me with that problem or question.

Quoting tkinnen:

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What level of service do people expect for what the software costs and the money spent?

Tom

Maybe the level I expect to receive is based on the post that had me choose this program over another:
HERE

4th question. Ken says that is what we can expect. We don't get it.

Again my reason for starting this thread is to simply ask:
1) to make things easier, that when a ruling is made on the forums, copy and paste it into the rules.
2) to respond to forum posts asking for clarification.

Quoting Woola:

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Quoting FilmAlba:

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Quoting Woola:

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James:

The Rules aren't hard at all. You can get caught up in various bits of minutiae. But the core of the Rules is that everything is based on REAL data, that which every user can see, and as it actually appears. It really is very simple, no matter those who like to complain about their complexity, they really raeel aren't.

Skip

There not complex there just not clear.

While, in my opinion, Alba, they are very clear the majority of time. Are they perfect, no and they never will be. Most of the problems come from users who want to apply some interpretation for themselves without understanding the fundamental basis of the Rules, or those that simply don't want Rules and simply want to be able to enter whatever they want and to hell with anybody else. Alba, you weren't here in the bad old days, you have absolutely no concept of just how big a mess this Online used to be in and the kind of outrageous updates and constant changes that we used to see. It's easy for you to be critical without any basis in history, but the facts are the Online is light years ahead of where it was, are we there yet, are we where Ken envisions the future of the Program.Oh hell no. Is Disney World perfect, or done, NO, in fact Walt said it himself with the amount of acreage the Company holds the Resor will never be finished and never be perfect, it will evolve endlessly. No difference with this Program, some of the evolution will be dictated by us and some of it will be dictated by Hollywood and their creative crediting, or packaging or evolving products. Do I understand the fundamentals of the rules, the precepts that they are based on, I better and I can try and offer guidance in that area, but if you are one who simply wants things done your way, like some here, then you don't care what the fundamentals are and will always be unhappy since you can't do things YOUR way relative to the Online.<shrugs> What are you, I don't know, i don't know you, I can drraw conclusions based on a very narrow window (your postings) but they are as likely to completely wrong as they are right, so I try not to draw conclusion about any particular users. Even some which I have "known" on these forums for many years, I still don't KNOW them and can not really come to any legitimate conclusions.

The Rules aren't hard and in General they are clear. But there are and always will be exceptions to the clarity, but if you understand the fundamental basis under the Rules then you canwork through nearly anything you think is cloudy.

Skip

We come back to this notion that you are supposedly the only one who understands them which is  true. This sites database is suppose to be easy to access for all not just the elite few who have a wealth of knowledge on databasing.

How that was solved on Spot was using editors so you only filled out a few fields of text and they done the rest. A friend of mine is a programmer and is working on a 5 year contract with his company who want them to design a database for accumulating data on cattle and sheep to help farmers in there purchasing of the correct animals with what ever the farmers breeding goal is for his herd.

As you can imagine certain areas of technology are not exactly something your average farmer is very adept at.

So he constantly has to review feedback from the customer rep on how to simplify the site till it is deemed user friendly by all customers concerned. As we are customers to the database here it must become easier to use online so it's user friendly for all.

As you said the rules and the way the online is run must change the problem is it's not changing fast. I will never be 100% happy that impossible but i expect a certain standard and as of right now that standard has not been met.

I keep seeing comparisons to Spot. I have one comment; Spot is dead. Maybe there is another program out there similarr to Spot that would fill your needs. But this is not Spot and it isn't ever going to be Spoy.

Way back when I heard the same sort of complaints from Beta users. So what Beta lost, VHS won get over it. I thought that HD was better in a lot of ways than BD, but BD won, I don't go on and on about how wonderful HD was. Enough comparisons to Spot, it wasn't strong enough to survive, I am sorry but thosev are the facts, the back ground of CNet and so forth is just noise, it died.

We have very talented users, who have been using the Program for years and many of them will jump right in and give someone an answer to a problem far faster than you would get it from Invelos. Myself...I have been known to have a user call me with a problem that is easier to handle by phone where I can walk through the issue step by step with the user...many times.  I am only too happy to help.

As someone else noted, we can offer support and guidance...what you choose to do with it...well that is up to you. Any of us who have used this program for a long period of time, cam predict the movement of events. We know about when the natives are going to get restless and start sayin we want a NEW toy, and exactly the tone they will take, just like the Spotter's behavior and attitudes are very predictable. None of you have said anything that has been said by many over the last ten years, including all of your various arguments and complaints about "customer service", trust me, it's all old news. Which is why some of will tell you to just relax and go with it, I don't care how much or how loudly you complain about it, I have seen little that says you are going to impact anything...other than to make the forums a miserable for you and everyone else.<shrugs>

Skip

Quoting samuelrichardscott:

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Quoting Woola:

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We have very talented users, who have been using the Program for years and many of them will jump right in and give someone an answer to a problem far faster than you would get it from Invelos.

I agree but the answers change thread to thread, user to user, depending on the question.

Well it would be very boring world if we all thoguht the same and i welcome argument for the wuestions it makes.

But what i suggest is those who are the leading members (not Skip) simply set up thread that is moderated for only them to use to work out a consensus for moving this forward.

I also suggest Sam be the mediator.

Sometimes it really amaze me how no one want to understand no one in this forum. 8 pages on this you gotta kidding me...

The question isn't to rewrite the rules entirely because some users want to do it their way, but to update the rules immediatly when a decision is taken in the forum... At least this is how I've understand it from the beginning.

I don't understand why anyone can have a problem with this, since a minority of the users frequent the forum the majority don't even know that some rules had changed.

I don't see why we need to discuss this for so long, unless this is for going off-topic and continue with the same old argument from 2 years ago about anything one user or another like or don't like about DVDP.