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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,506 |
| Posted: | | | | At no point did T!M imply directly or otherwise that he's an Invelos representative. |
| Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,934 |
| Posted: | | | | If that is the case, it looks like all his crew credits are William Wisher (7 titles in all)
By that we would have William Wisher as the common name... |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,372 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote: Quoting Forum Moderator:
Quote: The finger pointing is not helpful and for some reason seems to be getting worse just as a solution is at hand. I agree, but Tim is more interested in pretending to represent Invelos instead of providing one crucial piece of infromation. Apparently the moderator didn't think so. If it's OK with you I'll go with what the actual representative of the company has to say. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote: Wow...5 pages in 3 hours.
A few points: Per Ken, citing the CLT is more than enough to make a change to a common name. Per Ken, proving that the two name refer to the same person is not required...unless there is some doubt. Per Ken, the person who has the doubt, must document that doubt. Simply saying, I have doubts, is not enough. 1) I don't agree with that interpretation of Ken's comment Ken's statement, from this thread, was, "It is not necessary to document the source of the common name, outside the use of the CLT." How else can that be interpreted? The only source necessary is the CLT. Quote: 2) I never saw Ken make any such comment, that would be silly on its face. The rest of his statement, "If there is a dispute over whether the credit references the same person, documentation may be necessary. However, in most cases it is not required." I have notified the evaluators to disregard general demands for specific documentation of common name outside the use of the CLT. Users who prefer more rigidly documented common names are free to enforce those rules on their local data." Granted, it is just my interpretation, but telling the screeners to ignore 'general demands for specific documentation" tells me that the person who is making those demands must give a reason other than 'I don't believe they are the same person'. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Forum Moderator: Removed | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote: Martian actually provided a bit of useful information that YOU and others did NOT. I'll let the moderators deal with your misguided accusations, but I would, in all fairness, like to point out that I actually did mention 'The Abyss' (the "crucial piece of information" you're referring to) back on page two. Again: nothing new has come to light during the course of this thread - it was all perfectly clear from the get-go, and it still is. Quote: As has bbeen noted elsewhere, another user some months ago put the lie to your claims about using CLT results , he posted results that did not match your claim...what a surprise....NOT!!!!! That is a flat-out lie! Please substantiate this claim, or stop making false accusations. Provide the link to the forum post where this was "exposed". You can't, hm? Because it's a lie! You're the liar, not me. Quote: When yoy post CLT results I will happily vote Yes, but I will not accept a claim you refuse to back up. There again, you're lying. You're saying this in public to make you look good, to make you sound relatively "reasonable", but the fact of the matter is that it's just not true. Whenever I do include the CLT numbers, you still vote "no" consistently - facts and figures readily available on request. In fact, you're the main reason I don't include them, since I've found that it really doesn't matter anyway, because you'll still vote "no". So there really is no point in me providing them. Do as you please, but don't come here in the forums and lie about your voting behaviour. I have plenty of proof readily available to show that you're lying. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Man, you people have fast fingers...a whole page in the time it took me to find Ken's post. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 11, 2009 | Posts: 211 |
| Posted: | | | | If every time a member made a declarative statement out of their position we labeled that an impersonation of Invelos, we would be down to very few users. So, enough accusations along these lines. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote: Wow...5 pages in 3 hours.
A few points: Per Ken, citing the CLT is more than enough to make a change to a common name. Per Ken, proving that the two name refer to the same person is not required...unless there is some doubt. Per Ken, the person who has the doubt, must document that doubt. Simply saying, I have doubts, is not enough. 1) I don't agree with that interpretation of Ken's comment Ken's statement, from this thread, was, "It is not necessary to document the source of the common name, outside the use of the CLT."
How else can that be interpreted? The only source necessary is the CLT.
Quote: 2) I never saw Ken make any such comment, that would be silly on its face. The rest of his statement, "If there is a dispute over whether the credit references the same person, documentation may be necessary. However, in most cases it is not required."
I have notified the evaluators to disregard general demands for specific documentation of common name outside the use of the CLT.
Users who prefer more rigidly documented common names are free to enforce those rules on their local data."
Granted, it is just my interpretation, but telling the screeners to ignore 'general demands for specific documentation" tells me that the person who is making those demands must give a reason other than 'I don't believe they are the same person'. I do not believe that ken meant to just make the claim without providing the results, Martian. He can type anything. If he USED the CLT then he should just post the results of the CLT usage. Not just claim he did so, that is useless and meaningless, and as I noted some months ago another user caught him misrepresenting that claim, because the CLT results the user posted did not support the claim. Also Martian since you noted it what is the difference between a voter demanding NameA=Name B, because you note says "general demands for specific documentation" tells me that the person who is making those demands must give a reason other than 'I don't believe they are the same person" Don't you see the disconnect there, the Contributor doesn't have to provide documentation via CLT results, at least. But a user who thinks that something else is required must require documentation. that's a joke, right. The contributor can say "It is because I say it is so" but the voter cannot make the say I don't believe they are the same person without Documentation. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,372 |
| Posted: | | | | Is saying CHEERS TO THE MODERATOR for setting things straight considered a comment on his or her actions?!? |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Forum Moderator: Quote: If every time a member made a declarative statement out of their position we labeled that an impersonation of Invelos, we would be down to very few users. So, enough accusations along these lines. Yes sir.<saluting> Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,372 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: Man, you people have fast fingers...a whole page in the time it took me to find Ken's post. It was flying along there for a few minutes I had to delete a whole post, and it was a short one! |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote: I do not believe that ken meant to just make the claim without providing the results, Martian. He can type anything. If he USED the CLT then he should just post the results of the CLT usage. Not just claim he did so, that is useless and meaningless, and as I noted some months ago another user caught him misrepresenting that claim, because the CLT results the user posted did not support the claim. This illustrates the downside of being a parser. Whether I like it or not, all I can go by is what Ken actually wrote..and he wrote, twice, "outside the use of the CLT." Ken could have easily added, that including those results was required, he didn't. While I don't like it, all the contributor has to do is use the CLT. Quote: Also Martian since you noted it what is the difference between a voter demanding NameA=Name B, because you note says "general demands for specific documentation" tells me that the person who is making those demands must give a reason other than 'I don't believe they are the same person"
Don't you see the disconnect there, the Contributor doesn't have to provide documentation via CLT results, at least. But a user who thinks that something else is required must require documentation. that's a joke, right. The contributor can say "It is because I say it is so" but the voter cannot make the say I don't believe they are the same person without Documentation. A general demand for documentation is one that is not specific, so I don't see any way around it. Do I agree with it? No, for much the same reasons you don't, but it is what it is. Once again, the downside of being a parser. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote: I do not believe that ken meant to just make the claim without providing the results, Martian. He can type anything. If he USED the CLT then he should just post the results of the CLT usage. Not just claim he did so, that is useless and meaningless, and as I noted some months ago another user caught him misrepresenting that claim, because the CLT results the user posted did not support the claim. This illustrates the downside of being a parser. Whether I like it or not, all I can go by is what Ken actually wrote..and he wrote, twice, "outside the use of the CLT." Ken could have easily added, that including those results was required, he didn't. While I don't like it, all the contributor has to do is use the CLT.
Quote: Also Martian since you noted it what is the difference between a voter demanding NameA=Name B, because you note says "general demands for specific documentation" tells me that the person who is making those demands must give a reason other than 'I don't believe they are the same person"
Don't you see the disconnect there, the Contributor doesn't have to provide documentation via CLT results, at least. But a user who thinks that something else is required must require documentation. that's a joke, right. The contributor can say "It is because I say it is so" but the voter cannot make the say I don't believe they are the same person without Documentation. A general demand for documentation is one that is not specific, so I don't see any way around it. Do I agree with it? No, for much the same reasons you don't, but it is what it is. Once again, the downside of being a parser. You may be the parser without peer, my friend. But I don't buy it, it doesn't make sense. So I will continue to follow my conscience unless ken wishes to clarify his comment. I find it hard tio believe that he means it's OK for a user to just claim "it is because he says it is so" I want to see the results, and will vote yes if I see the CLT results, unless I feel there is a NameA=NameB issue which doesn't happen all that often. Just as you commented about ken in making clarifying remarks. how hard is it for the Contributor to include CLT results, IF HE REALLY CHECKED it. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,506 |
| Posted: | | | | Hmm, I've just had a thought (always dangerous ), would it be possible, when contributing cast/crew that include new Credited As data, for the system to automatically add, in a non-editable field, the CLT figures for the relevant entries? That would then make everyone happy in that regard. Just a thought, I'm not a programmer so don't know how hard that would be to do. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | I can't find the post to swear to it... but I thought I remembered a post where Ken or Gerri said that it was ok to vote no (not voting abuse) if they do not provide the CLT results. And basically said it may or may not go through without the CLT results.
Think it had something to do with previous contribution record and such.
This sound familiar to anyone? | | | Pete |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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