This is the problem I said would happen when birth years were introduced. I've had the same problem.
I contributed an update to Friends Season 6 and Bruce Willis had a birth year.
I never entered this, it must have gotten into my database from another profile I accepted, hence all profiles with Bruce Willis now have a birth year.
It's only someone voting against it which drew my attention to it.

The profile comparison screen when you accept downloads does not show whether or not birth years have been added so you have no way of knowing how many have gotten into your database.
Also how would 95% of users know whether a birth year should be being used on an actor or not?

In the case I quoted above, how do I know that there isn't a film somewhere featuring another actor called Bruce Willis and someone has added a birth year to distinguish them (which would be correct).
I have no films featuring this other Bruce Willis and so think that there should be no birth year listed.

Hence the ping-ponging of titles which is only going to continue.

The only real way I can see of getting rid of this is to either remove the birth year record or else include birth years for all actors 

Anyone else have any ideas on how to solve this problem?

If I remember correctly the concensus that was reached was that Birth Years should only be included for actors/actresses when there are more than one regardless whether or not the amount of films in local database. (Ken Had the Final word, if memory serves right)

If there are two Bruce Willis's then Birth Year is to be included, if there is only one John Wayne then no Birth Year to be used.
Again it is a wait for the Rules to be updated on this for verification.

Steve

Quoting snarbo:

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If I remember correctly the concensus that was reached was that Birth Years should only be included for actors/actresses when there are more than one regardless whether or not the amount of films in local database. (Ken Had the Final word, if memory serves right)

Great idea... not so good in practice as loads of people have had the birth year downloaded in a single profile and thus is in their entire database. This either stops  these people from submitting any cast updates or means that eventually it will have to be accepted that birth dates are standard for everyone.

Quoting Rifter:

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Quoting northbloke:

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I don't know if it's possible or not, but it would help if the addition of the birth year only showed up as a change on your submission ONLY if you were the one who added it!

If it's there because of a previously approved contribution then it shouldn't show as one of your changes and so not be included in the voting.

What you've just described is called "local database only."

Correct Northbloke. You can do whatever you want to do locally in your own databases. There you can determine what is important to YOU and set up your Db accordingly, but it remains LOCAL. The Online does not belong to A user, it belongs to ALL users and is simply a starting point from which we all build our own custom database that meets out needs.

Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

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Quoting Rifter:

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Quoting northbloke:

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I don't know if it's possible or not, but it would help if the addition of the birth year only showed up as a change on your submission ONLY if you were the one who added it!

If it's there because of a previously approved contribution then it shouldn't show as one of your changes and so not be included in the voting.

What you've just described is called "local database only."

Correct Northbloke. You can do whatever you want to do locally in your own databases. There you can determine what is important to YOU and set up your Db accordingly, but it remains LOCAL. The Online does not belong to A user, it belongs to ALL users and is simply a starting point from which we all build our own custom database that meets out needs.

Skip

I don't think you've understood what I meant.
Lets say User A submits a profile with a valid BY in the cast and it is accepted and User B uploads it.
User B owns a film that contains the actor that User A did not own, so the BY is automatically copied over.
However User B now notices an error in the cast list of that film and submits the correction. But as well as his own correction, the BY also shows up as an alteration which User B did not make.
What I'm saying is that if User B did not make the BY alteration, then it shouldn't show up on User B's submission, or at the very least it should be marked somehow to show that User B did not make the change. It seems very unfair that people are getting good submissions rejected because of an alteration they had no control over.

Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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Quoting northbloke:

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Quoting skipnet50:

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Quoting Rifter:

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Quoting northbloke:

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I don't know if it's possible or not, but it would help if the addition of the birth year only showed up as a change on your submission ONLY if you were the one who added it!

If it's there because of a previously approved contribution then it shouldn't show as one of your changes and so not be included in the voting.

What you've just described is called "local database only."

Correct Northbloke. You can do whatever you want to do locally in your own databases. There you can determine what is important to YOU and set up your Db accordingly, but it remains LOCAL. The Online does not belong to A user, it belongs to ALL users and is simply a starting point from which we all build our own custom database that meets out needs.

Skip

I don't think you've understood what I meant.
Lets say User A submits a profile with a valid BY in the cast and it is accepted and User B uploads it.
User B owns a film that contains the actor that User A did not own, so the BY is automatically copied over.
However User B now notices an error in the cast list of that film and submits the correction. But as well as his own correction, the BY also shows up as an alteration which User B did not make.
What I'm saying is that if User B did not make the BY alteration, then it shouldn't show up on User B's submission, or at the very least it should be marked somehow to show that User B did not make the change. It seems very unfair that people are getting good submissions rejected because of an alteration they had no control over.

Not sure that Ken can do anything about it showing on the submission... since the comparison screen has to show all differences. But Ken did put this situation in the rules...

Rules Quote:

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Do not enter union/guild affiliations, such as A.C.E. and B.O.E.

Enter birth years only when necessary to differentate between two actors with the same name. When submitting a contribution that adds a birth year to one or more credits, list justification in the contribution notes.

If the birth year change is due to an accepted change to another profile, indicate that.

So as long as you are putting in your contribution notes that this is a change you did not make... that it came from another profile update... no one should be voting no as you are doing what the rules are telling you to do.

Yeah, but what about the guy that doesn't notice that change (its buried way down in the cast list for example) right off and its two or three weeks worth of updates later when he submits a change and carries that birthyear along with it unbeknown to him.  How is he supposed to make that note?

Face it, birthyear is broke, and won't work as implemented any more than common name will.

Yeah, but what about the guy that doesn't notice that change (its buried way down in the cast list for example) right off and its two or three weeks worth of updates later when he submits a change and carries that birthyear along with it unbeknown to him.  How is he supposed to make that note?

Face it, birthyear is broke, and won't work as implemented any more than common name will.

this is a noted change... to kevin smith

Quoting m666:

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I'm talking about there is an update pending right now from someone else that is taking the birth year off of Kevin Smith...
That someone else has put on kevin smith that I agree with and would like to remain.
all his movies did have and should have the birth year right now... but someone just contributed a bunch where that was a noted change.

Then fix them the way you want it to be in your LOCAL database cast lists, lock them down, and forget about it.  Don't play the game then, however, by uploading profiles with birthdates.  Let other people add them or not in their local db.