| Author |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | I currently have a "no"-vote on one of my pending contributions because I've parsed Elaine Corral Kendall as E/C/K instead of E//C K, with the voter saying: "Personally know Corral was her maiden name". I don't doubt that for a moment, of course - I would personally LOVE to have a rule that tells us to always put maiden names in the last name field as that's where I feel they belong. But unfortunately, there's no such rule - hence my E/C/K parsing.
For the record: according to the CLT, she's credited in one film as Elaine Corral-Kendall (with a hyphen), in three films as Elaine Corral, and as Elaine Corral Kendall in the rest.
What should it be? |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | | If it can be proven that Corral is her maiden name, it should go in the last name field. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | If the 'Corral-Kendall' credit can be confirmed, I am happy to use that as proof it is a double last name. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr. Killpatient: Quote:
If it can be proven that Corral is her maiden name, it should go in the last name field. Can I use that as a general approach to maiden names? |
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| Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
For the record: according to the CLT, she's credited in one film as Elaine Corral-Kendall (with a hyphen) Based on that, if it can be proven then E//C K |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
If the 'Corral-Kendall' credit can be confirmed, I am happy to use that as proof it is a double last name. I've been able to confirm that one myself, yes. Is that really enough? Why then don't we parse Carole-Bayer Sager (thread here) as C//B S? There's a Carole Bayer-Sager credit in the database for her, too... Again, I'd love any kind of consistent approach, but I'm getting confused if one "Elaine Corral Kendall" credit means I get to parse E//C K, but one Carole Bayer-Sager doesn't mean I get to parse C//B S...  |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Dr. Killpatient:
Quote:
If it can be proven that Corral is her maiden name, it should go in the last name field.
Can I use that as a general approach to maiden names? Since there is no mention of maiden names in the contribution rules for credits, I could have to say that logic should prevail here and respond with "Yes." By definition, the maiden name is their birth last name. If a woman gets married and adopts the last name of her husband or joins the two last names together (hyphen or ala Facebook), it doesn't turn it into a middle name. | | | | Last edited: by Dr. Killpatient |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
If the 'Corral-Kendall' credit can be confirmed, I am happy to use that as proof it is a double last name.
I've been able to confirm that one myself, yes. Is that really enough? Why then don't we parse Carole-Bayer Sager (thread here) as C//B S? There's a Carole Bayer-Sager credit in the database for her, too... Again, I'd love any kind of consistent approach, but I'm getting confused if one "Elaine Corral Kendall" credit means I get to parse E//C K, but one Carole Bayer-Sager doesn't mean I get to parse C//B S... I would say here that if they use a hyphen, include it. If they don't, don't. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
If the 'Corral-Kendall' credit can be confirmed, I am happy to use that as proof it is a double last name.
I've been able to confirm that one myself, yes. Is that really enough? Why then don't we parse Carole-Bayer Sager (thread here) as C//B S? There's a Carole Bayer-Sager credit in the database for her, too... Again, I'd love any kind of consistent approach, but I'm getting confused if one "Elaine Corral Kendall" credit means I get to parse E//C K, but one Carole Bayer-Sager doesn't mean I get to parse C//B S... Because in that situation, the person involved had an 'official' website that indicated her last name was 'Sager', not 'Bayer Sager'. In this case, there is no 'official' website. In the absence of an official reference, I would go with the hyphenated credit as proof enough. JMHO | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr. Killpatient: Quote:
If a woman gets married and adopts the last name of her husband or joins the two last names together (hyphen or ala Facebook), it doesn't turn it into a middle name. I've been saying that for years, but I've been attacked for it just as long here in the forums - along with many "no"-votes...  I'm all in favor of that "logic should prevail" approach - it's just that I've frequently been told not to do this... Quoting Dr. Killpatient: Quote:
I would say here that if they use a hyphen, include it. If they don't, don't. I don't understand that. There is one "Elaine Corral-Kendall" credit vs. many "Elaine Corral Kendall" ones. Of course I'm using the hyphen for that one credit - but only in the "credited as" field, where it belongs, as "Elaine Corral Kendall" is her common name. Same for the one "Carole Bayer-Sager" credit: I'd put that in the "credited as" field, but I still need to decide on the parsing for common name "Carole Bayer Sager". So I don't understand that comment.  |
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| Registered: June 12, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr. Killpatient: Quote:
Since there is no mention of maiden names in the contribution rules for credits, I could have to say that logic should prevail here and respond with "Yes." By definition, the maiden name is their birth last name. If a woman gets married and adopts the last name of her husband or joins the two last names together (hyphen or ala Facebook), it doesn't turn it into a middle name. Except logic doesn't prevail on this subject and assumptions shouldn't be made. Example: my mother, whose maiden name became her middle name when she married my dad. We've been down this road many times and should probably just link to those threads rather than do it all over. Is a Maiden name a middle name or part of the last?Regarding this particular instance i think Unicus has it right. | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! | | | | Last edited: by tweeter |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
Example: my mother, whose maiden name became her middle name when she married my dad. Then she (most likely) legally changed her name to make it her middle name. It's not an automatic thing that happens. | | | | Last edited: by Dr. Killpatient |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
In this case, there is no 'official' website. In the absence of an official reference, I would go with the hyphenated credit as proof enough. JMHO This whole parsing debacle is getting worse by the minute...  So, whenever a maiden name is involved in situations like this, there's at least one hyphenated credit out there, but there's no official reference to declare otherwise, you'd put the maiden name in the last name field? I guess I have quite a few names to change, then. For the record: I went to the trouble to click along all 125 "Elaine Corral Kendall" entries in the database. Guess what? Only one of them is parsed E//C K. The 124 other entries are all parsed E/C/K... These all need changing now? |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,917 |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Only one of them is parsed E//C K. The 124 other entries are all parsed E/C/K... These all need changing now? I'm willing to bet that whomever entered them simply assumed it was her middle name since there was no hyphen used. I would have done the same. |
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| Registered: June 12, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! | | | | Last edited: by tweeter |
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