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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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Yet another data scandal |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | After the iPhone, PlayStation and Facebook stories, there is now the news that Twitter/Twitpic, Flickr etc. can sell images you upload to them to third parties both without your consent and without any revenues coming your way. More here. Makes me wonder how this relates to issues of copyright, privacy and portrait right. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | This really isn't anything new. That's been pretty much the Standard practice of photo sharing sites for years and that's why I don't use any of those sites  . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,749 |
| | Posted: | | | | Except for PlayStation, I'm with 8ballMax on this one. I just got my new card after the PS3 fiasco. | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mreeder50: Quote:
Except for PlayStation, I'm with 8ballMax on this one. I just got my new card after the PS3 fiasco. Same here...got my new Card yesterday. Still waiting for PSN to get back online. They're going to get an earfull from me for not being able to access my MLB.TV account because of them...I've missed nearly 3 weeks of baseball  . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,749 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ouch! My brother would be in the mental ward if he lost 3 weeks worth of MLB. | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. | | | | Last edited: by mreeder50 |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | | Received my new card last week. With online storage/websites being so cheap and you don't care if you're not part of a photo community, hosting your own photo site is the way to go. This is what I do using the Gallery app and there are others out there too - I evaluated Coppermine before choosing Gallery. The VC link in my tag is an example of their Gallery 2 app. I run my own web server at home and once I migrate from Windows to Mac OS Server, the VC link will be an example of their Gallery 3 app. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Makes me wonder how this relates to issues of copyright, privacy and portrait right. Easily! Because with uploading a picture to these sites you have to accept their terms of usage. These usually have a passage in which you "agree" that for providing the web-space for your pictures they get all rights on this pic. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | @Silence_of_Lambs:
It's not that simple.
First of all, there are all too many people that upload pictures that are not theirs to begin with. You cannot give away rights you never had in the first place.
Secondly, there's the issue of "portrait right" (don't know if that's the correct term in English). What I'm referring to is this: if I shoot a picture of the Dutch Queen, that does not give me automatically the right to publish that picture in any way I see fit (at least: not under Dutch law). If she feels she has a reasonable interest in preventing publication, she can take me to court and then the court will balance my freedom of expression against the Queen's interests (e.g. privacy, commercial interests, her public image etc.).
While I CAN give away any copyright I own, I can never give away anyone else's portrait right. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | The terms of usage have a built in Catch-22.
With uploading you confirm that no legal rights are violated by your uploaded content.
So they take ownership and pass possible law-suits back to you.
I'd call that a clever (and almost risk free) business idea. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | I doubt that. Terms of Usage are automatically void if they violate laws.
Let's say, in my earlier example, Twitpic sells a picture I have taken of the Dutch Queen to some advertising agency for a commercial.
Since the Queen's portrait right is non-transferable, I still think she can take legal action. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | I didn't say she couldn't.
But the legal action will be directed against you not against the platform where you distributed the picture.
The terms of usage don't even violate the laws. They simply say: "We are allowed to do anything we like with your pictures and if anything goes wrong you are the one responsible"
The concept is almost fail-safe:
You provide the content
They are allowed to sell it
And if you didn't get all the rights you needed to be allowed to publish the pictures it was all your fault.
Slightly smelly but not illegal. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quote:
TinyPic does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, applications, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post on or through the TinyPic Services. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the TinyPic Services, you hereby grant to TinyPic and other users a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels. Content will be publicly available, and TinyPic and other Users may copy or display Content outside of the TinyPic Services through the quick link feature or through any other display mechanisms. | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'd think the legal action, in my example, would be directed against the agency publishing the commercial. That agency may then try and recover their damages from the next party in the chain, i.e. Twitpic, and so on. |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Quote:
TinyPic does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, applications, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post on or through the TinyPic Services. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the TinyPic Services, you hereby grant to TinyPic and other users a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels. Content will be publicly available, and TinyPic and other Users may copy or display Content outside of the TinyPic Services through the quick link feature or through any other display mechanisms. There's the issue right there: you cannot "grant to TinyPic" a license to which you yourself had no right to begin with. If this happens nonetheless, I doubt if the situation legally is as clear-cut as Silence_of_Lambs claims it is. To give just one example: if I upload a picture with a copyright notice on it which I have taken from some website, and TinyPic sells it to a third party, the copyright owner can argue in court that TinyPic could and should have known (through the copyright notice in the picture) that they were violating copyright law when they were selling it. (Just like they would be able to sue me for obvious reasons). |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | But they spell out what is not allowed Quote:
is patently offensive or promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual;
harasses or advocates harassment of another person;
exploits people in a sexual or violent manner;
contains nudity, excessive violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website;
solicits personal information from anyone under 18;
publicly posts information that poses or creates a privacy or security risk to any person;
constitutes or promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous;
constitutes or promotes an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's copyrighted work;
involves the transmission of "junk mail," "chain letters," or unsolicited mass mailing, instant messaging, "spimming," or "spamming";
contains restricted or password only access pages or hidden pages or images (those not linked to or from another accessible page);
furthers or promotes any criminal activity or enterprise or provides instructional information about illegal activities including, but not limited to making or buying illegal weapons, violating someone's privacy, or providing or creating computer viruses;
solicits passwords or personal identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes from other Users;
involves commercial activities and/or sales without prior written consent from TinyPic such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, or pyramid schemes;
includes a photograph or video of another person that you have posted without that person's consent; or
violates the privacy rights, publicity rights, defamation rights, copyrights, trademark rights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. The next section says what they may do, if you violate these including notifying authorities. They pretty much cover themselves, and make the user obligated. | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | The only thing that I am saying....
It is not new. I read the terms of use before I consent to anything (been burned before).
If people do not read the terms of use, and blindly accept the conditions, then it is on the User, not the host.
When signing or signing up, how many "Terms of Service" have you read?
No scandal, just people not caring...
Charlie |
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