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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
Cast Credits question
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscooterberwyn
Registered: May 31, 2007
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In the Contribution Rules under "Credits" for film casts, the rule states that "if a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits."

What is the reason for this rule?  I sometimes see actors in the supporting cast that are listed in the opening credits but not in the ending credits.  It doesn't feel right to list their names in the database above the names of actors who are listed above them in the opening credits - especially above the names of the stars.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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I believe it's because a lot of television series have the main cast listed in the opening credits and the guest cast listed in the closing credits.

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Not only TV series... but TV movies as well.

This has been talked about on more then one occasion and after all the examples given by different people in the end it was decided that it was best to leave it the way it is in the rules now. To many exceptions to make a different rule at the same time to keep the rule as easy to follow.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscooterberwyn
Registered: May 31, 2007
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I have very few DVDs of television shows and movies in my collection.  Certainly it's awkward for theatrical films.  It's a shame that there has to be a specific "rule" for this.  One would hope that simple common sense would prevail - but maybe that's too much to ask!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
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I don't understand this topic.

As far as I'm aware, there are either the full cast in in one block in the end credits or they are splitted into the main cast - which is listed along the beginning of the film, TV show, etc. - and the additional cast, which is listed in the end credits.

Can you give an example?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
Can you give an example?

'True Lies', for instance. The cast list in the end credits starts with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jamie Lee Curtis and Tom Arnold, but fails to include the cameo by Charlton Heston, who's only listed in the opening credits. Per this particular rule, his credit has to be listed first, above the film's main cast.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscooterberwyn
Registered: May 31, 2007
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Likewise, on a film whose DVD I recently added to the database, Andre Morell is listed in the opening credits on the second screen after the stars' names appear, but he's not listed at all in the closing credits.  By this rule, even though Victor Mature, Michael Wilding and Anita Ekberg are the stars, Mr. Morell's name must be listed before theirs.  It's not right.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting scooterberwyn:
Quote:
It's not right.

Why?  For many, many films, the end credits are NOT in 'star' order.  Some have cast "In Order of Appearance" while others have "Cast in Alphabetical Order".  A standard had to be set because your common sense, when contributing, may not be the same as somebody else's common sense when contributing.  Personally, I don't like it, so I don't do it.

When I audit a title, if the end credits are not to my liking, I list the cast in opening credit order...because that is usually set up with the 'stars' first...add a divider, then enter the cast in end credit order.

This, unfortunately, means I don't contribute those titles.  I used to, but I no longer have the time to audit a title twice just so I can contribute.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
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 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscooterberwyn
Registered: May 31, 2007
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And it means that a valuable resource - you - is being discouraged from inputting profile information.

That's sad.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Registered: May 1, 2002
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Quoting scooterberwyn:
Quote:
And it means that a valuable resource - you - is being discouraged from inputting profile information.

That's sad.


Yeah but without a rule that sets a standard I could come along and declare that Sean Connery simply does not belong this far up in the credits of Robin Hood because he appeared only in a cameo function at the end of the movie. And yet he has top billing.

So I'd move his ass were it belongs in my point of view. And then then Martian comes along again and says "but he's right there in the opening credits!".

There will always be disagreement on what constitutes common sense, because it simply is never that common.
Karsten
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
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This example is not fair.

For films with with cast in the opening credits the producers decided to list them there, because they thougt, they were important enough to be there.

Who are we, to decide the end credits are more important than the opening credits?
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Registered: May 1, 2002
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We are the guys who decide that FRANCOIS has to be spelled as Farncois in standard cases as our favourite frenchman would point out.

We're not bound to what Hollywood decided up to more than a hundred years ago. And neither does IMDb and whatever you think of them, they are a magnitude larger an operation than DVDP.
Karsten
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting scooterberwyn:
Quote:
And it means that a valuable resource - you - is being discouraged from inputting profile information.

That's sad.

This isn't the only thing that prevents me from contributing...I don't use common names or birth years either...it's just another brick in the wall.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
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The Francois example is exactly the point. In every other decision we are kind of enslaved to the will of the studios. We copy each and every typo, we use their credits as reference how to write an actor's name...

But we ignore the opening titles. That's odd.

OK we can find at least two other topics, where we ignore the studios: We don't credit the casting crew and we don't credit the Unit Production Managers and Assistant Directors, which are alway credited immediatly in before or after the cast.
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
 Last edited: by AiAustria
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
But we ignore the opening titles. That's odd.

They are not ignored or else this conversation would not exist.

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
In every other decision we are kind of enslaved to the will of the studios. We copy each and every typo, we use their credits as reference how to write an actor's name...

Who is "we"?
Some users have decided to use incorrect data and destroy all the functions of their database (linking, sorting, filtering...).
But others have not and just try to have a working personal database...

"We" should be used only when "we" have a consensus... and "we" have to be patient waiting for this...
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